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re: Russia on verge of biggest gain in Ukraine since summer
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:10 pm to trinidadtiger
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:10 pm to trinidadtiger
quote:
Indefatigable you seem to throw around this sovereignty word a lot
Considering that the concept of sovereignty is the bedrock of modern foreign policy, yes. I do use the word.
quote:
Seems to me that would be Russia in the territory it has now liberated. Are you saying they should give up that???
Gotcha. So any state can just take territory. Finders keepers. Got it. That should lead to a workable and stable world order. Good to know. I'm going to come steal your car, since I will own it as soon as I am in the driver's seat.
I never said they would win, and they absolutely would not win without Western support. I just think it is completely absurd to think that capitulation is a reasonable thing to expect from Ukraine. "wHy Won'T THey NeGoTiATe??1!??1" is stupid, and that is what I am pointing out.
This post was edited on 1/12/23 at 4:12 pm
2
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:12 pm to QboveTopSecret
quote:
ondon Zelensky chose destruction for Ukraine for a Pro Russian eastern region most ukrainians dubbed West Virginia.
Kiev pro Russian?
Kherson pro Russian?
Kharkiv pro Russian?
I don’t think so.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:18 pm to Powerman
quote:
The most predictable outcome out of all of this is both Ukraine and Russia will be fricked long term
The difference is, if Ukraine "wins", they will get to be part of the EU and will have the ability to develop again.
Russia? Not so much.
If Russia wins, not so much (for both of them b/c Russia will impose it's will on Ukraine and restrict its ability to join the EU)
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:19 pm to Indefatigable
Do you think Putin conquers Kyiv for the purposes of regime change?
Putin annexes large part of eastern Ukraine, kills or kicks out Zelensky, installs his puppet in Kyiv and then Ukraine become a friend of Russia. Seems like that's were it's headed and we are mad about it.
Putin annexes large part of eastern Ukraine, kills or kicks out Zelensky, installs his puppet in Kyiv and then Ukraine become a friend of Russia. Seems like that's were it's headed and we are mad about it.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:20 pm to doubleb
quote:
Fight back just as they are,
That’s their only real option. They once were under Russian control and they hate the Russians for treating them like dogs. They don’t want to ever go back.
Ukraine's history under Moscow's heel is long, ugly and within living historical memory of genocide. They have the will to fight and won't give up.
Most of the other former Soviet satellites are providing much of their old, but upgraded Soviet era arms and replacing it with American and Western arms.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:21 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Putin annexes large part of eastern Ukraine, kills or kicks out Zelensky, installs his puppet in Kyiv and then Ukraine become a friend of Russia. Seems like that's were it's headed
It's where we were already headed when they installed a puppet in 2010 specifically to thwart EU integration.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The difference is, if Ukraine "wins", they will get to be part of the EU and will have the ability to develop again.
Part of the problem for both countries is they've already suffered massive population attenuation well before this war started and both have pretty strict immigration policies. Both countries are simply short on people. If Ukraine "wins" this war they'll have to change the way they look at immigration and open their borders up to other countries.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:26 pm to Auburn1968
The smart move for Ukraine was to remain neutral. Never be a part of nato. But neocons wanted this skirmish to weaken russia. Ukraine will be destroyed.this was the most needless war I have ever seen. Much blood on Tony blinkens hands.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
What do you think our policy should be in Ukraine right now, and what do you worry that we’re doing that’s going to undermine our China policy?
We should be pivoting out of Europe to deal with China in a laser-like fashion, number one. And, number two, we should be working overtime to create friendly relations with the Russians. The Russians are part of our balancing coalition against China. If you live in a world where there are three great powers—China, Russia, and the United States—and one of those great powers, China, is a peer competitor, what you want to do if you’re the United States is have Russia on your side of the ledger. Instead, what we have done with our foolish policies in Eastern Europe is drive the Russians into the arms of the Chinese. This is a violation of Balance of Power Politics 101.
LINK
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:28 pm to GumboPot
quote:
If you live in a world where there are three great powers—China, Russia, and the United States
Dude you're a fricking idiot if you take this clown seriously
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:28 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Seems like that's were it's headed and we are mad about it.
And we are honoring our promise to help them maintain their sovereignty,
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:30 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Do you think Putin conquers Kyiv for the purposes of regime change?
At this point? No. I think he would be foolish to do so. It wouldn't last. Western Ukraine is "too far gone" to be forcibly reintegrated with Moscow.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:31 pm to Powerman
quote:
Dude you're a fricking idiot if you take this clown seriously
Russia is s nuclear power as are China and the US.
China and the US are economic powers, Russia is not.
Russia has very little to offer us.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:31 pm to Powerman
quote:
Dude you're a fricking idiot if you take this clown seriously
quote:
John Joseph Mearsheimer born December 14, 1947 is an American political scientist and international relations scholar, who belongs to the realist school of thought. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago. He has been described as the most influential realist of his generation.
I would put a lot more weight on this guys opinion than message board winners.
This post was edited on 1/12/23 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:32 pm to doubleb
quote:
And we are honoring our promise to help them maintain their sovereignty,
What promise? What president signed off on this and what congress gave him that authority?
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:33 pm to GumboPot
Old Joey will drop a few more billions in!
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:33 pm to Powerman
Mearsheimer has absolutely beclowned himself.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:35 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Russia on verge of biggest gain in Ukraine since summer
The biggest gain that Russian forces have made since the summer is a 5 square mile town in the Donetsk oblast and that makes you think Zelensky is up against a wall? I realize it's strategically important to the fighting there but c'mon...
Posted on 1/12/23 at 4:35 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
"wHy Won'T THey NeGoTiATe??1!??1" is stupid, and that is what I am pointing out.
Because unlike disney movies the world is not full of wonderful or bad choices. Sometimes its the lesser of two shatty ones, not some fairy tale.
zensky had a choice back in April, yes give up some of Ukraine and hope for the best. Or have 10s of thousands of Ukranians die, millions displaced, and he become a celebrity and his wife a shopping queen. He chose the latter.
Im not trying to be a prick, but life sometimes just isnt fair and you have to deal with it. And zensky using millions of Ukranians for his own personal gain is more sickening than anything the Russians are doing.
And if Russia is such a bad governing power, ask the people of Crimea if they are happier now, they would probably say they were til Ukraine blew up their bridge and started killing them for wanting to be part of Russia.
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