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re: Game of Thrones S8E5 "The Bells" is officially the worst reviewed GOT episode yet
Posted on 5/14/19 at 6:53 pm to RB10
Posted on 5/14/19 at 6:53 pm to RB10
Not fur sure but there is stuff in the show that should at least provide SOME clue.
Telling Jon she will rule through fear and then terrorizing KL makes a lot of sense.
they may explain it some other way but as of now there is at least some insight into this.
Telling Jon she will rule through fear and then terrorizing KL makes a lot of sense.
they may explain it some other way but as of now there is at least some insight into this.
1
Posted on 5/14/19 at 6:57 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Not fur sure but there is stuff in the show that should at least provide SOME clue.
Yet you’re sitting here speaking in absolutes while I’m saying they could have provided more depth.
I’m the stupid one though.
quote:
Telling Jon she will rule through fear and then terrorizing KL makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, it makes sense if you believe she lost her mind at the drop of a hat. Not all of us are willing to just take that as a valid reason.
quote:
they may explain it some other way but as of now there is at least some insight into this.
Maybe. This is a discussion about what’s happened though, not what may happen.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 6:57 pm to RB10
quote:
You’re seriously going to sit there and try to tell me we know for sure what her motivations were
Based on her previous behavior to people who didnt worship her I think we have a pretty damn good idea you admit yourself it makes sense. In what way could they have possibly done it differently other than adding a narrator. Its part of what used to get fleshed out in first person chapters in the book and then added in by readers. With the limitations of film and how the narrative is structured theres no more that they could do.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 6:57 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
IT could have been better but at the same time it wasn’t “unearned” I think especially this season they really started selling it.
I mean it’s fairly unearned. It contradicts itself. If the idea is she’s going to torch the city in order to win all future wars like you are saying, that’s fine and would make sense with her “mercy for all future generations line”. Awesome, she’s lost it and is of the opinion that these people can be sacrificed for the greater good of all future generations. That’s a very calculated move though. That is thought through. That goes with a main theme of the show. Should you Sacrifice the few for the good of the many. However, if that’s the case, she wouldn’t have shown restraint at the beginning. You just torch everything. It completely invalidates the scene with the bells.
On the other hand, if we are to believe she truly snapped in the battle like they portrayed it, that contradicts her talking about not being a tyrant and ending the world of tyrants. We also don’t get any good draw to that point. The character goes from showing mercy to the innocent to mass genocide pretty much within an hour or so and the audience basically just has to accept this is where we are now.
Either way that is poor writing.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 7:01 pm
Posted on 5/14/19 at 6:59 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
Based on her previous behavior to people who didnt worship her I think we have a pretty damn good idea you admit yourself it makes sense.
Nothing she did in the past makes complete genocide of a city no longer resisting. You’re leaping to the extreme without asking why it’s happening. Not everyone is going to do that.
quote:
In what way could they have possibly done it differently other than adding a narrator.
So a narrator is the only way for a character in a television show to give some insight into their frame of mind?
That’s asinine.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 7:01 pm
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:02 pm to RB10
quote:
city no longer resisting.
Those unarmed tarlys were sure resisting that dragon.
Yes the slavers that just sold her an army in astapor were really resisting her
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:03 pm to RB10
quote:
So a narrator is the only way for a character in a television show to give some insight into their frame of mind?
No its not. Mnay people caught on to the insight to the multiple things at play. You didnt. Its ok to admit it.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:05 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
Those unarmed tarlys were sure resisting that dragon.
They were told to kneel weren’t they? What would you call it when the refused?
quote:
Yes the slavers that just sold her an army in astapor were really resisting her
Right. Killing the slave masters is the same thing as razing a city.
Looks to me like you made some pretty wild assumptions based on some vague insights into Danys character. Assumptions that would have likely been fleshed out nicely had they paced the final two seasons properly.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:07 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
No its not.
You just it was was the only way.
quote:
Mnay people caught on to the insight to the multiple things at play. You didnt. Its ok to admit it.
So we’re just back to you not understanding the argument is against pace and not the content.
Awesome.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:13 pm to RB10
quote:
Right. Killing the slave masters is the same thing as razing a city.
They then sacked the city and just because they owned slaves its ok for her to kill them? I mean they just sold her a friggin army. I think we all agree that slavery is abhorrent but it must be taken in context. slavery was abolished in France proper in 1315. If someone from france bought a slave in New Orelans and then killed the person who sold them in 1790 it would still be considered murder and still be considered wrong
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 7:14 pm
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:14 pm to rich4pres
quote:
I thought episode 5 was the best episode this year.
Same
And I've been very critical of the first 4 episodes.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:16 pm to Sponge
So is this thread some kind of record? It’s less than 24 hours old yet has 40 pages, mostly from the same 8 posters arguing back and forth.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:19 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
They then sacked the city and just because they owned slaves its ok for her to kill them? I mean they just sold her a friggin army. I think we all agree that slavery is abhorrent but it must be taken in context. slavery was abolished in France proper in 1315. If someone from france bought a slave in New Orelans and then killed the person who sold them in 1790 it would still be considered murder and still be considered wrong
No one is arguing that what she did wasn’t ruthless. In fact, everyone I’ve seen agree that the mad queen was a potential outcome.
What you and Sammy can’t seem to grasp is that while the mad queen was foreshadowed, the Dany we saw in S8E3 vs. the one we saw in S8E5 was poorly written and forced the audience to just accept that she had “just lost it”.
shite man, we got an entire season to flesh out the motives of the sept nuke for Cersei, and we already knew what she was. You don’t think Dany’s transformation deserved more than 1.5 episodes? This is a character that up until 2 episodes ago we were still supposed to believe she could be the savior.
The pacing of seasons 7 and 8 were too fast. The pacing of the last 2 episodes is an abomination to a show that was all about deep seeded character development.
ETA: You saw the same things the rest of us did. You’re just not questioning why he sink into madness wasn’t more of a process. It’s a simple as you being satisfied with what you’ve been presented while others want more out of them.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:30 pm to RB10
quote:That’s kind of my point. When half the character to follow are dead, and the rest of the characters are sharing a significant amount of screen time, on top of lengthening the episodes by an additional episodes so that 3 episodes cover 4 episodes worth of time as previous episodes, all of a sudden the pace of the individual storylines are going to appear to move much faster, even if they aren’t.
The characters were traveling all over the realm in the first 4 seasons and the pace was nearly perfect.
quote:I never saw anyone defend the Dorne storyline, besides maybe the attractiveness of the sand snakes, but maybe some like me, just didn’t care for it either way. I don’t think they handled either the Greyjoy’s (besides Theon) or the Dornish women characters well, but they were two of the storylines that started late into the books and had some new magical basis (dragon horns) that have yet to be expanded upon. I can forgive them for underdeveloping late plotlines with minimal development in the books (by the book standards).
And I bet many of the people saying they couldn’t do season 8 much better were the same ones who screamed bloody murder and anyone who pointed out the problems with the entire Dorne plot line.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:32 pm to RB10
The Tarleys didn't want to bend the knee and refused the Black because Dany wasn't their Queen. Its war, they got what they deserved. Plus Jaime threatened Tarley to betray Olenna.
The slavers killed and crucified 163 kids, she returned the favor. Understandable!
We all know the Lannisters have done worse.
Imho she should have killed Varys, then Tyrion and Jaime before the fight. No reason to trust a Lannister as Tyrion kept failing her.
Burning/chopping head off- same difference. Stannis was going to burn Mance but John Snow saved him.
To be honest- I thought she was just gonna fly to the Red Keep and light Cersei up. That would have been awesome to watch.
The slavers killed and crucified 163 kids, she returned the favor. Understandable!
We all know the Lannisters have done worse.
Imho she should have killed Varys, then Tyrion and Jaime before the fight. No reason to trust a Lannister as Tyrion kept failing her.
Burning/chopping head off- same difference. Stannis was going to burn Mance but John Snow saved him.
To be honest- I thought she was just gonna fly to the Red Keep and light Cersei up. That would have been awesome to watch.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:38 pm to LUS Tiger in FL
quote:
Arya and the Hound reunite on their ride to Kings Landing? We don’t get anything but “I’m going to King’s Landing, me too, I don’t expect to be back, me neither.” We don’t learn anything. We don’t get an organic interaction between two people, two people that we know and who know each other. But these aren’t really Arya and the Hound anymore. They’re synopses of their former selves. In fact, every member of the cast is now the same. Everyone is stoic, and hardened, and self absorbed. Everyone stands around with the same serious grimace. Everyone, including supposed master manipulators, declare their honest intentions to anyone within earshot multiple times. Events are hardly “foreshadowed”, they are broadcasted in absolute terms. How many times did Tyrion need to say “innocent people will die” even when he had little reason to believe that would be the case, before Dany had even implied she was considering it? Why is every conversation cut short? Every time a character is about to unveil their intentions— the moments when we are supposed to be learning about the characters thought processes, motivations, and emotional experiences, is the scene “dramatically” interrupted by a third party, every single time? Why would I want some gotcha “twist” for Dany’s eventual downward spiral when I could have spent time with her as a character, in the little moments, the ones that remind of what it’s actually like to exist in the world and feel emotions and impulses and deep anger and fear? Why would I want to see Dany make a sour face and make a quip about respect or dragons or rightful queen or something when I could listen to her talk to Jorah about what it feels like to be loved, or feared, or hated? Why can’t these characters doubt themselves anymore? Where’s the humanity?
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:39 pm to LUS Tiger in FL
quote:Didn’t she ignore Tyrion’s plea for them to take the black?
The Tarleys didn't want to bend the knee and refused the Black because Dany wasn't their Queen.
quote:This why this scene was so important, and they made it a point to contrast the response to her decision to execute Randyll’s with the response to his son’s. Then they focused back on that again with Sam being told about it. They even made it a point to highlight Dickon’s inexperience and almost innocent demeanor with his interactions with Jamie.
war, they got what they deserved. Plus Jaime threatened Tarley to betray Olenna.
Dickon didn’t deserve to die. Dany didn’t care and decided to murder him anyways to send a message. And the message about her was clear. She’s ruthless and life is expendable, innocent or not, to her ultimate goals.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 7:40 pm
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:40 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Which would have made more sense if she had gone into King's Landing and, from the beginning, blasted everything she saw. She didn't do that. The plot dictated the moment instead of the character.
That scene also demonstrated her defiance. So far she had listened to her advisors about not destroying the city and killing everybody. They had told her that when she hears the bells to stop, they surrender. She stuck to the battle plan up until the balls rang. At that moment she had a decision to make, was she going to listen to/obey people who she feels had abandoned her and are plotting to take her throne? Or is she going to lay waste to KL and strike fear in the hearts of anyone who dare oppose her?
That's why that scene played out the way it did, I believe.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:40 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
But that doesn't change the fact that season eight is objectively bad by Game of Thrones standards.
Maybe. Probably.
But I am entertained. And that is a fact. Just the fact that this post was written and alive is entertainment in itself, which originated from Game of Thrones... Think about that.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 7:40 pm to SoDakHawk
Jon really hasn’t done jack shite this season.
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