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re: Game of Thrones S8E5 "The Bells" is officially the worst reviewed GOT episode yet
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:55 pm to Scoob
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:55 pm to Scoob
quote:
Scoob
Another one who gets it. The content is fine. The pacing of it blows.
It really is great story writing though.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:02 pm
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Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:03 pm to Scoob
quote:I mean if they were able to give that impression in one episode, then maybe they can give at least something more then that in the next.
What sucks is that unless they do a VERY good job of ep 6, the lasting impression of Dany is "crazy bitch burning the city".
quote:And she made it clear she wasn’t going for acceptance because they weren’t going to freely accept her. Our acceptance is irrelevant though. Now I’m sure it was the absolute worst choice she could have made, but we at least know why she made it.
Take out the Red Keep after the surrender, and I'm still willing to accept her.
quote:And why should we want or expect her redemption? Shouldn’t we expect some characters to end up worse in our eyes, or should all of them get a nice redemption? That seems as close to a fairy tale ending as it can get in Game of Thrones.
We had time for a Jaime redemption, we had time for a Theon redemption. We don't have time for a Dany redemption.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:17 pm to buckeye_vol
im surprised womens groups arent going apey on this. They started out with a bunch of strong female characters, but in the end none of them could get along, a couple got knocked up, a couple ran to dudes to save them, and none of them were seen to be fit to rule anything.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:30 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:It took quite awhile for me to not root for Theon to get butchered after he turned on the Starks. I spent most of that season thinking Ramsay's a monster, and GOOD, Theon deserves this.quote:
What sucks is that unless they do a VERY good job of ep 6, the lasting impression of Dany is "crazy bitch burning the city".
I mean if they were able to give that impression in one episode, then maybe they can give at least something more then that in the next.
Took awhile to warm up to Jaime too.
Took several episodes of Sparrow torture, basically took the Walk of Shame, for me to have much empathy for Cersei after the shite she did before. That did somewhat allow for my final sympathy at the end. Had she been a despicable bitch with no fallout until then, I would have been begging for her to die each time she was on screen; as it turned out I kinda hoped Jaime could get her to the boat before falling over. I sorta wanted her hysterically telling him to get up and come with her, and he says go now and dies.
Like I said, Dany was generally someone I rooted for, because most of the people she killed were assholes. In a show like this, that's not really a bad trait
. And she talked a good game, especially upon meeting Tyrion. I figured she'd have to adjust her ideals to fit the game, but didn't see Pol Pot coming. quote:Are you also ok with, say, Jon doing this? Afterall, the people of King's Landing ignored his pleas for help against the Night King. frick 'em all, only those who stood at time of need deserve to live. Those cowards lived by our blood, and then dared to support the wench who would behead us if she could.
And why should we want or expect her redemption? Shouldn’t we expect some characters to end up worse in our eyes, or should all of them get a nice redemption?
We start the next episode with her landing and dismounting, and Jon runs to her and says "you marvelous bitch, that was outstanding! Let's throw the rest in chains and march them back up to the Wall so they can rebuild it."
That'd be a cool ending too, right?
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:33 pm to Scoob
quote:No. Why would I be? Jon has never shown any of the tendencies of Dany. That would truly be something that had nothing, whether foreshadowing, prophecy, or development whatsoever to justify that. It wouldn’t be just the “too abrupt and with more development” that we have here.
Are you also ok with, say, Jon doing this?
quote:Are you not going to answer my simple question? Or was your dumb scenario the best you can do?
That'd be a cool ending too, right?
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:35 pm
Posted on 5/15/19 at 12:14 am to buckeye_vol
Jon started off with an arrogance in the show too, although he learned to be humble. He beat the frick out of the other Night's Watch recruits for awhile.
He came to appreciate those around him.
He made alliances with Tormund and the Wildlings because he thought it was in the greater good, despite the fact that it went against the customs and wishes of every man who wore the Black. Remember, Tormund slaughtered a peaceful village, just to frick with the Night's Watch. Several, actually. He was every bit as brutal as Dany, just didn't have the resources to do as much. Now, they're buds because they fought together in the Battle of the Bastards and against the Night King, and Tormund saved his arse.
Dany saved his arse too. And she fought together with him against the Night King, and against Cersei. This was after she allowed him to mine all the dragonglass he wanted, while still not bending the knee.
The people around Moletown were people Jon knew, he doesn't even know the people of King's Landing. But he's cool with one thing because war sucks, can't he be cool with this other thing for the same reason?
Just a hypothetical, since we are discussing Jon's character.
He came to appreciate those around him.
He made alliances with Tormund and the Wildlings because he thought it was in the greater good, despite the fact that it went against the customs and wishes of every man who wore the Black. Remember, Tormund slaughtered a peaceful village, just to frick with the Night's Watch. Several, actually. He was every bit as brutal as Dany, just didn't have the resources to do as much. Now, they're buds because they fought together in the Battle of the Bastards and against the Night King, and Tormund saved his arse.
Dany saved his arse too. And she fought together with him against the Night King, and against Cersei. This was after she allowed him to mine all the dragonglass he wanted, while still not bending the knee.
The people around Moletown were people Jon knew, he doesn't even know the people of King's Landing. But he's cool with one thing because war sucks, can't he be cool with this other thing for the same reason?
Just a hypothetical, since we are discussing Jon's character.
Posted on 5/16/19 at 8:34 am to Scoob
found this posted on reddit and I found it interesting:
quote:
I don’t think Dany “went mad” really. I think she made the decision to burn King’s Landing to the ground in the scene with Jon where she concludes “Let it be fear then.” This season has been about Dany coming to grips with the fact she isn’t loved in Westeros as she was in Essos. Even after helping to defeat the Army of the Dead, she gets zero love. And yet, she will not give up the Iron Throne. She fundamentally believes it is hers and she can rule benevolently for generations. Getting there however requires going scorched earth on Kings Landing. Why? She knows the stories of Jon’s heritage will spread and the only way to ensure she is not challenged by the rest of the Seven Kingdoms is to cause carnage so awful, so utterly terrifying, that it outweighs Jon’s claim. The stories of this day will spread quickly and grow more terrifying as they get told. She even shares a quick nod with Grey Worm when Tyrion pleads that she stand down if the bells are rung. Grey Worm starts the fighting on the ground after they have thrown down their swords. They were on the same page from the get go. She was just hoping the bells would not ring, because she knew it would have made her task a bit easier. A horrible death for tens of thousands in exchange for immediate unchallenged authority followed by generations of peaceful rule. This is her logic.
Posted on 5/16/19 at 9:33 pm to monsterballads
quote:
quote: I don’t think Dany “went mad” really. I think she made the decision to burn King’s Landing to the ground in the scene with Jon where she concludes “Let it be fear then.” This season has been about Dany coming to grips with the fact she isn’t loved in Westeros as she was in Essos. Even after helping to defeat the Army of the Dead, she gets zero love. And yet, she will not give up the Iron Throne. She fundamentally believes it is hers and she can rule benevolently for generations. Getting there however requires going scorched earth on Kings Landing. Why? She knows the stories of Jon’s heritage will spread and the only way to ensure she is not challenged by the rest of the Seven Kingdoms is to cause carnage so awful, so utterly terrifying, that it outweighs Jon’s claim. The stories of this day will spread quickly and grow more terrifying as they get told. She even shares a quick nod with Grey Worm when Tyrion pleads that she stand down if the bells are rung. Grey Worm starts the fighting on the ground after they have thrown down their swords. They were on the same page from the get go. She was just hoping the bells would not ring, because she knew it would have made her task a bit easier. A horrible death for tens of thousands in exchange for immediate unchallenged authority followed by generations of peaceful rule. This is her logic.
My sentiments exactly, however this person does a better job of communicating that rationale better than I ever could.
Starting with the drunken celebration at Winterfell after the demise of the Night King and his Army, Dany has been pushed aside and Jon has gotten all the love.If not for Dany and her Army and her dragons they would all be dead and heading South as part of the Army of The Dead. Yet Jon is the one celebrated by all, while Dany watches and feels as unappreciated as one could possibly feel, given the situation.
Add in Cersei's lies about helping with the war against the Dead, her penchant for lying and deceiving, the fact that she is controlling all from the Red Keep (built by Dany's family) and the hate is set on high simmering. By the time she loses Rheagar (SP?)and the Iron Fleet's destruction of her naval forces she knows that her meeting for surrender with Cersei outside the KL wall is a wasted effort. With Cersei riding a high and the people believing in her forces, Dany knows that nothing short of an absolute devastation of Cersei's forces and supporters will show the people of Westeros that the power of her reign will go unchallenged. With her belief that Jon is betraying her by not continuing their relationship, Tyrion's continued dropping of the ball, Dany sees that she is basically an island upon herself, and the only way she will get the respect she deserves for everything to this point, is to make an example of what will happen in the future to those who challenge her rule. I don't think she see's it as "mad" or crazy, because in her mind everything is justified to some degree. But those looking from a different view see a woman "losing it" and going all scorched earth on everybody and anybody.
Yes, a couple more episodes would have allowed a better push to this, but it is what it is. And while I do think DnD have gotten lazy in many things and regressed from the brilliance that got the show where it is, I don't believe the whole "Mad Queen" element is where they failed/are failing the audience.
Just my dos centavos
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