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re: How legit was the movie Moneyball
Posted on 4/16/23 at 9:06 am to St Jean The Baptiste
Posted on 4/16/23 at 9:06 am to St Jean The Baptiste
quote:
Not only is this my favorite sports movie, this is my favorite movie, period.
It’s a very good movie and all, but you might need to expand your horizons my man.
This post was edited on 4/16/23 at 9:10 am
1
Posted on 4/16/23 at 9:13 am to West Palm Tiger561
quote:
the film conveniently leaves out the fact that the 2002 A's had one of the greatest rotations of all time, and had 3 studs in Tejada, Chavez, and Dye.
Buzz Bissinger has been outspoken about how this is his main gripe with Moneyball, and basically called it disingenuous.
Posted on 4/16/23 at 9:16 am to Feral
meh. its a movie. its going to take historical liberties to fight the narrative. they all do it
doesnt change the fact that billy beane is largely responsible for getting baseball out of the dark ages and thats largely what the movie is about
doesnt change the fact that billy beane is largely responsible for getting baseball out of the dark ages and thats largely what the movie is about
Posted on 4/16/23 at 9:27 am to West Palm Tiger561
The movie neglected to mention that most people thought the A's were the favorites or at least the co-favorites to win the AL West that year even after losing Giambi and Damon. For example, 9 out of the 14 writers at Baseball Prospectus predicted them to win the division. LINK
Also, the A's were notoriously slow starters. The previous year, they started the year 11-20 and was only 38-41 at the end of June and then went on an absolute tear going a ridiculous 64-19 the rest of the way to finish with a 102-60 record. Nobody who knew anything about baseball was writing off the A's in late May.
Also, the A's were notoriously slow starters. The previous year, they started the year 11-20 and was only 38-41 at the end of June and then went on an absolute tear going a ridiculous 64-19 the rest of the way to finish with a 102-60 record. Nobody who knew anything about baseball was writing off the A's in late May.
This post was edited on 4/16/23 at 9:36 am
Posted on 4/16/23 at 9:30 am to Bench McElroy
They were telling a story of how analytics changed baseball, not making a documentary of the 2002 Oakland A’s. Overboard left brained movie watching is so tiresome and boring.
Posted on 4/16/23 at 10:07 am to Draconian Sanctions
everyone remembers the flip, but how many remember former 2nd baseman Chuck Knoblauch's catch in left
Posted on 4/16/23 at 10:35 am to Jcorye1
Beane gets a lot of praise for building a baller team on a budget.
Problem is that some of his moves aged REALLY badly.
That draft, mentioned earlier, is a big one. They didn’t have guys like Prince Fielder on their board for bullshite reasons which boiled down to “we can’t sign them as rookies and we really can’t afford to give them a second contract.”
Plugging holes like Gianni leaving with Hatteburg worked well. But you still need some stars peppered in there and the draft was one of the very few ways to do that along with international scouting, which is where they got the likes of Tejada IIRC.
Drafting shite players because they fit your budget is penny wise and pound foolish.
Problem is that some of his moves aged REALLY badly.
That draft, mentioned earlier, is a big one. They didn’t have guys like Prince Fielder on their board for bullshite reasons which boiled down to “we can’t sign them as rookies and we really can’t afford to give them a second contract.”
Plugging holes like Gianni leaving with Hatteburg worked well. But you still need some stars peppered in there and the draft was one of the very few ways to do that along with international scouting, which is where they got the likes of Tejada IIRC.
Drafting shite players because they fit your budget is penny wise and pound foolish.
Posted on 4/16/23 at 10:45 am to West Palm Tiger561
Beane’s success in general is way overblown. I do think Beane’s embrace of the “Moneyball” concept was one factor that ushered in analytical thinking in baseball. That trend also leaked into other sports as well. Much of that many be due to advances in technology and thinking in general.
Baseball is now about home runs and strikeouts. Basketball is now about threes. Baseball now measures things like WAR and basketball looks at player efficiency.
Old ways for thinking about things like batting average, post play, and three yards and a cloud of dust of died out.
Baseball is now about home runs and strikeouts. Basketball is now about threes. Baseball now measures things like WAR and basketball looks at player efficiency.
Old ways for thinking about things like batting average, post play, and three yards and a cloud of dust of died out.
This post was edited on 4/16/23 at 10:53 am
Posted on 4/16/23 at 11:08 am to West Palm Tiger561
Tejada won the MVP, Zito won the Cy Young, they had several other solid offensive players and three other good to great starters plus a great closer.
Most of those guys were still early contract guys, so the A's could afford them before they left in free agency. Justice was cheap in his final year. Dye was traded for the previous year.
Tejada bolted for Baltimore. Zito got paid by the Giants. Hudson to Atlanta. Mulder to St. Louis.
Surrounding young controlled stars with cheaper veteran contributors is still a strategy in play across MLB for small market teams.
Most of those guys were still early contract guys, so the A's could afford them before they left in free agency. Justice was cheap in his final year. Dye was traded for the previous year.
Tejada bolted for Baltimore. Zito got paid by the Giants. Hudson to Atlanta. Mulder to St. Louis.
Surrounding young controlled stars with cheaper veteran contributors is still a strategy in play across MLB for small market teams.
Posted on 4/16/23 at 11:17 am to mule74
I think that looking back on Beane and the A’s now is like looking back on Citizen Kane. It’s hard to see what is so special, because what made them remarkable is now ubiquitous. If I recall from the book, even at the period it was written, you were starting to see guys like Theo Epstein embracing analytics and hiring Bill James as a consultant.
Posted on 4/16/23 at 12:07 pm to mule74
Earl Weaver was a big believer in this stuff well before sabermetrics became a thing.
I think Beane just took it to a new level in a free agency world in which you no longer had tight control over your rosters anymore.
Old team building was just drafts and trade.
Team building, especially once salaries exploded in the early 90s, became more about either buying expensive FAs or losing your guys to big contracts elsewhere.
I think Beane just took it to a new level in a free agency world in which you no longer had tight control over your rosters anymore.
Old team building was just drafts and trade.
Team building, especially once salaries exploded in the early 90s, became more about either buying expensive FAs or losing your guys to big contracts elsewhere.
Posted on 4/16/23 at 12:34 pm to West Palm Tiger561
Top 10 movie 
Posted on 4/16/23 at 12:46 pm to mule74
quote:
Baseball now measures things like WAR and basketball looks at player efficiency.
I’m still very skeptical about attempts to boil down everything a player does into a single number… it ignores what they’re there for and that’s to play a role if they’re not elite players
Analytics have greatly diminished small ball baseball strategy, for one, but it hasn’t changed that playing for one run is always viable when that’s what you need
Basically context is needed
Posted on 4/16/23 at 1:11 pm to West Palm Tiger561
Posted on 4/16/23 at 1:38 pm to West Palm Tiger561
Are the A’s ever going to try and be competitive again
Posted on 4/16/23 at 1:54 pm to West Palm Tiger561
Funny thing is, that A's team lost to the Minnesota Twins in the 2001 ALDS - a team who was about to be contracted and had a smaller budget than the A's. Brad Radke, Eric Milton, and Everyday Eddie...
Posted on 4/16/23 at 1:54 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
I’m still very skeptical about attempts to boil down everything a player does into a single number… it ignores what they’re there for and that’s to play a role if they’re not elite players
100% agree that analytics can and does got to far. That’s said, it’s better than what management has as doing before. That’s been shown on the field/court of play.
Posted on 4/16/23 at 1:57 pm to Dubosed
Watching Zito snapping those curveballs is borderline erotic
Posted on 4/16/23 at 2:29 pm to mule74
Except the numbers prove otherwise
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