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Started By
Message
re: Russia outline for Ceasefire conditions for Ukraine at Istanbul Meeting
Posted on 6/2/25 at 6:34 pm to GnashRebel
Posted on 6/2/25 at 6:34 pm to GnashRebel
We started it.
1
Posted on 6/2/25 at 6:38 pm to SirWinston
That was months after the conflict started 
How did the West get the pro-Russian President to thwart EU integration at the 11th hour?
Why did Russia invade when the guy who ousted the purported Western puppet was in office? That whole issue died in 2019 in the best interpretation of your argument.
How did the West get the pro-Russian President to thwart EU integration at the 11th hour?
Why did Russia invade when the guy who ousted the purported Western puppet was in office? That whole issue died in 2019 in the best interpretation of your argument.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 6:48 pm to tide06
quote:
The fact that the process was begun multiple times proves my original point, that being that both sides before and during the war were considering expanding NATO into Ukraine.
Of course they were. NATO knew it was going to be problematic, so they were biding their time waiting for the right moment. Here's a direct quote from the 2008 Bucharest meeting.
quote:
NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations. We welcome the democratic reforms in Ukraine and Georgia and look forward to free and fair parliamentary elections in Georgia in May. MAP is the next step for Ukraine and Georgia on their direct way to membership. Today we make clear that we support these countries’ applications for MAP. Therefore we will now begin a period of intensive engagement with both at a high political level to address the questions still outstanding pertaining to their MAP applications.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 6:55 pm to Bunk Moreland
That guy sounds very smart in retrospect.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 8:57 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That was months after the conflict started
You dont think we were working it from the early days of Obama's second term? I say we were. We were meddling all over the globe under Obama.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 9:00 pm to Powerman
quote:
The war was started by Russia
This has been a long drawn out conflict with the US and the Soviets, extending to present day Russia.
Our presence in the Middle East was to stop Soviet influence.
Arguing otherwise is just ignoring our history.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 9:16 pm to John Barron
Ukraine may as well fight it out until the end.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 9:27 pm to dgnx6
quote:Yet, this post ignores the long history of Russian conquest, mistreatment, and atrocities against Ukrainians, which spans at least 250 years and intensified significantly in the early 20th century. While the USA, and certainly the CIA, played a role, they didn't originate the underlying conflict.
This has been a long drawn out conflict with the US and the Soviets, extending to present day Russia.
Our presence in the Middle East was to stop Soviet influence.
Arguing otherwise is just ignoring our history.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 9:28 pm to sidewalkside
Not much of a starter. Seems those for extended war are winning. Ukraine can buy what weapons they want. Chips fall.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 9:51 pm to AaronDeTiger
For what it’s worth I’ve seen it. It doesn’t show Ukraine started the war. You could argue they provoked it but that’s not the same thing.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 9:52 pm to FriendofBaruch
quote:
See all discussion of the activities of our CIA and State Department and circumstances surrounding the coup of 2014, the military attacks on Ukrainian citizens in the Russian majority oblasts of that same time. Further elaboration is unnecessary.
Ah so fighting in your own country is starting a war with other countries now eh? You would make a good neocon.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 9:57 pm to GnashRebel
If you still think Ukraine is behind any of this, you are fvcking clueless.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 10:01 pm to John Barron
quote:
downsize the Ukrainian military, with limits both on personnel and weaponry; - disband nationalist military and paramilitary units;
As someone who doesn’t support either side these seem like non-starters.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 10:05 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Yet, this post ignores the long history of Russian conquest, mistreatment, and atrocities against Ukrainians, which spans at least 250 years and intensified significantly in the early 20th century. While the USA, and certainly the CIA, played a role, they didn't originate the underlying conflict.
Holodomor
Posted on 6/2/25 at 10:08 pm to John Barron
Typical Poliboard. Simping for Putin because their alt right influencers tell them to.
This post was edited on 6/2/25 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 6/2/25 at 10:13 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
And Serbia was bombed because Albanians were being slaughtered. Albania was on a path to NATO membership since 1992, which is why they were protected.
bullshite. First it was "Kosovar Albanians," not "Albanians" and NATO stepped in because Serbia had been demonized and they were defending themselves against Kosovar Albanian narco-terrorists and NATO gave Islam a criminal state right in the middle of Europe. NATO lost all credibility on March 25, 1999. A criminal state like Albania has no place in NATO.
Posted on 6/2/25 at 10:25 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:what is the official language of the US?
Can you imagine Mexico ordering the US to make Spanish our official language?
how long has it been that way?
Posted on 6/3/25 at 1:27 pm to crazy4lsu
You’re a very angry man with a very poor argument.
The fact that NATO chose not to immediately proceed in 2008 with a MAP doesn’t mean that they weren’t discussing and planning to later as I and others have repeatedly mentioned.
There are quotes, videos and press releases outlining the ongoing discussions and Russia had every reason to believe that at some point it was going to happen, particularly as things ramped up 2014+ with Nuland and other hawks getting heavily involved in Ukraine.
The idea that there was never any chance or intent on the part of elements within NATO and particularly the US State department to see Ukraine join prior to the invasion is such a strange hill to die on indicates you aren’t in a reasonable place to have a meaningful discussion so I’m done responding.
The fact that NATO chose not to immediately proceed in 2008 with a MAP doesn’t mean that they weren’t discussing and planning to later as I and others have repeatedly mentioned.
There are quotes, videos and press releases outlining the ongoing discussions and Russia had every reason to believe that at some point it was going to happen, particularly as things ramped up 2014+ with Nuland and other hawks getting heavily involved in Ukraine.
The idea that there was never any chance or intent on the part of elements within NATO and particularly the US State department to see Ukraine join prior to the invasion is such a strange hill to die on indicates you aren’t in a reasonable place to have a meaningful discussion so I’m done responding.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 2:13 pm to SirWinston
quote:
You dont think we were working it from the early days of Obama's second term?
We were trying to thwart Ukraine's integration into the EU?
Why not just...promote Ukraine's integration into the EU and avoid all the conflict/war?
Posted on 6/3/25 at 2:41 pm to loogaroo
quote:
Make that midget take the offer.
He and Putin are both 5'7.
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