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re: I’m having trouble justifying my stance against the death penalty…
Posted on 4/19/26 at 11:37 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 4/19/26 at 11:37 am to SlowFlowPro
LINK
That's what they think is legal. I'm not saying it is, it's just an AG policy memo. But the general idea is that you can put a drug kingpin to death for ordering murders even if they take no physical part in it. No idea if it's ever been pursued.
That's what they think is legal. I'm not saying it is, it's just an AG policy memo. But the general idea is that you can put a drug kingpin to death for ordering murders even if they take no physical part in it. No idea if it's ever been pursued.
This post was edited on 4/19/26 at 11:39 am
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Posted on 4/19/26 at 11:50 am to meansonny
quote:Again, I know it would not deter all crime.
Agree to disagree. Criminals do not think of consequences. Especially in the moment.
I am aware of that.
Are you implying that it wouldn’t deter any criminal actions?
quote:No, my argument is that harsh punishment would deter SOME crime.
If you are pro death penalty and your best argument is that punishment deters crime, then you are an idiot.
If I told you that harsh punishment resulted in a 10% reduction in overall crime, would you flatout oppose that?
And, yes, 10% is made up, but pick any number you want.
It sure wouldn’t be zero though.
And I’m not just talking about the death penalty. I am talking about all crimes and all punishment.
Everything should be substantially more harsh.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 11:51 am to Bacon84
numerous appeals and legal battles
Lawyers smile at the accumulating billable hours and their neighbors whose taxed lives will pay those bills even if they would rather not.
Lawyers smile at the accumulating billable hours and their neighbors whose taxed lives will pay those bills even if they would rather not.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 12:13 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Over the years, I have become more and more against the death penalty, but this case involving the murder of Athena Strand, a young girl who screamed and pleaded for her mother as her kidnapper brutally molested and murdered her, is really testing my limits.
That's a very base instinct kicking in, the core knowledge of knowing some animals are too dangerous to live.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 12:20 pm to RollTide1987
Not enforcing the death penalty in cases such as this is the ultimate disrespect of human life.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 12:20 pm to RollTide1987
It doesn’t matter what your opinion is. The problem is, that every American thinks they have to have an opinion and a stance on every political issue so they can argue with relatives over the holidays. But we’re completely irrelevant. Politicians don’t care what the peons think except at election time and then they forget about you. So keep your stance or change it. It won’t affect anything.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 12:45 pm to justaniceguy
quote:
This is true but if you look at the history of Singapore they put a lot of effort into making the place nice in the first place.
Using measures that would violate the U.S. Constitution if they were attempted here, such as jailing alleged criminals without trial.
This post was edited on 4/19/26 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 4/19/26 at 12:49 pm to Rouge
quote:Sure, as long as you don't care about the Bill of Rights.
You can be anti death penalty and pro torture that makes these monsters beg for death.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 12:49 pm to RollTide1987
My problem with the death penalty, is how its carried out.
Such in the case you posted. That guy just getting a jab and going to sleep forever is too easy.
He should feel a certain amount of pain and then die slowly while hurting immensely until his last breath.
A lot of them on death row should.
The victim didn't get a painless death, and neither should the ones who make them a victim.
Such in the case you posted. That guy just getting a jab and going to sleep forever is too easy.
He should feel a certain amount of pain and then die slowly while hurting immensely until his last breath.
A lot of them on death row should.
The victim didn't get a painless death, and neither should the ones who make them a victim.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 12:51 pm to Tigerlaff
quote:
The bloodlust is exactly the rational basis for the death penalty. When the state suffers monsters like this to go on living it just radicalizes normies. The whole point of the state is to take retributive violence out of the hands of private individuals/families/clans so that you can have a civil society without blood feuds and war lords.
Where's the evidence for this just-so story? Seems way more likely that normal people are radicalized by the failure of the system to keep them safe from monsters, which has far more to do with the revolving door of parole rather than the decision to execute someone vs imprison them without parole for the rest of their lives. You haven't presented any proof that the specific decision to leave them in prison forever is what causes that.
Also, while I agree with you that the state's use of violence is intended to remove the need for private retribution, this doesn't prove that public retribution is necessary instead. We don't entertain every last impulse of human nature.
quote:
Your position seems to imply that the real solution is to remove or ignore the desire for just vengeance in the heart of man so that we can live in a nice pragmatic little state that doesn't make lethal mistakes. My position is that when someone rapes and kills a 7 year old and is recorded doing it, human nature and even cosmic order itself demands that the ultimate price be paid. And when our institutions routinely fail to ensure that price gets paid, they invite the very chaos they were designed to prevent. They invite internet threads full of college educated middle class normies demanding horrific torture at the hands of the state when the state should have put a bullet in his head immediately after trial.
I find your position confusing. We remove or otherwise refuse to entertain all kinds of natural human impulses because society is better for doing so. The fact that vengeance is a natural impulse doesn't make it rational or wise to entertain.
It's a natural impulse to punch somebody in the face for being annoying with their speech, but we don't make that legal or create a means for the state to punch somebody in the face for being annoying instead. That's because we value freedom of speech enough to pay the consequences of staying our hands when someone says something annoying. I can still very much understand why someone would want to punch an annoying speaker in the face while still calling it irrational and being firmly convinced it should be illegal.
Likewise, in case there's any doubt whatsoever, nobody disagrees that this guy deserves to die. And if you've got some line to draw that distinguishes his case from the cases where people are wrongfully executed, or where they're subsequently exonerated before they would have been wrongfully executed, I'd probably join you on your side of that line. But I think it's clearly a correct price to pay not to satiate that bloodlust so that we can insure against the government making a mistake. Your claim that failure to execute guys like this radicalizes normal people would get there, but I don't think you've proved it at all.
quote:
The federal government can put you to death for treason, espionage, and large scale drug trafficking. But we can't kill this guy? You are the irrational one here, not human nature.
Where on Earth do you get the idea that I want those crimes to be capital crimes either
Posted on 4/19/26 at 12:53 pm to forkedintheroad
quote:
Why is death worse than life in prison as a mistake?
In both cases a person's life has been radically altered and their freedom taken from them.
Arguing that a particular punishment shouldn't exist because mistakes happen falls over into the argument that no punishments should exist because mistakes happen.
It's true but it's the price you have to pay to have any kind of justice system.
Because if you later realize you got it wrong, you can at least fix it going forward. No, they won't get their time in prison back, but at least the time they have left is rightfully restored to them.
This isn't black and white - if the option were "kill him" or "do nothing" then it'd be a very different story. But it's clearly not.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 1:00 pm to OleVaught14
quote:
2) The cost of carrying out the death penalty is substantially more expensive than sentencing a person to life in prison.
How so? Not contradicting anything just curious. It is super expensive to take care of an inmate for 30,40 years ?
Posted on 4/19/26 at 1:06 pm to Bear88
quote:
How so? Not contradicting anything just curious. It is super expensive to take care of an inmate for 30,40 years ?
As someone clearly on the anti-death penalty side of the fence, I'll tell you that this is true, but basically arbitrary, and not a meaningful argument against the death penalty IMO.
It's from the added cost of several more layers of mandatory appeals, plus the expense of the drugs used to carry out the execution, plus the time it takes for all this to play out. The added layers of appeals and the drugs increase the cost in absolute terms; the length of the process reduces the relative cost of life incarceration. (Say the process takes 20 years and the guy would only live for 30 years anyway - if you're comparing costs, then the 20 years of prison have to be paid for either way, so you only compare the 10 years left against the litigation and execution costs.)
But there is literally no reason that would be necessary. The Supreme Court has ruled various forms of execution unconstitutional, but there's nothing in the Constitution that requires it to be interpreted the way it has been. (At least, IMO.) I don't even argue this point anymore with people who support the death penalty because as I've learned the basis for it, I've realized it's totally arbitrary.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 1:12 pm to OKBoomerSooner
quote:
Because if you later realize you got it wrong, you can at least fix it going forward. No, they won't get their time in prison back, but at least the time they have left is rightfully restored to them.
"Sorry we took away the best years of your life. Go live out your dying years in peace".
You think that is a fix?
Posted on 4/19/26 at 1:17 pm to forkedintheroad
quote:
"Sorry we took away the best years of your life. Go live out your dying years in peace".
You think that is a fix?
I don't understand the point you're trying to make. No, it doesn't "fix" it, you can't "fix" it at that point, but you can reduce the harm that's wrongfully done by only taking some years instead of all.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 1:23 pm to OKBoomerSooner
quote:
I don't understand the point you're trying to make. No, it doesn't "fix" it, you can't "fix" it at that point, but you can reduce the harm that's wrongfully done by only taking some years instead of all.
The "reduction of harm" is wholly dependent on how much of their time got sucked away.
There's a point where it not only becomes minimal, but is probably a detriment to stick a dying elderly person back into society with no support structure.
My point here is that there are plenty of cases where the mistake cost someone too dearly to fix, but nobody is arguing that life imprisonment shouldn't exist because those things happen.
Same logic should apply to the death penalty IMO.
That's all I'm saying.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 1:26 pm to RollTide1987
Quit being a pussy.
Some people need to be killed for the crimes they commit. Rehabilitation is a waste of time and money.
Some people need to be killed for the crimes they commit. Rehabilitation is a waste of time and money.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 1:32 pm to RollTide1987
The death penalty is too kind against that mother fricker.
He should be killed slowly and painfully.
He is evil and deserves something more horrible than death.
A logical person can’t be against the death penalty.
He should be killed slowly and painfully.
He is evil and deserves something more horrible than death.
A logical person can’t be against the death penalty.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 1:33 pm to Lou Loomis
quote:Several state legislatures have abolished the death penalty since 2000, and a few states have reinstated it. Voters' opinions absolutely matter on this issue.
But we’re completely irrelevant. Politicians don’t care what the peons think except at election time and then they forget about you. So keep your stance or change it. It won’t affect anything.
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