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Hollinger on the Status of the Pels

Posted on 1/1/22 at 10:39 am
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17814 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 10:39 am
LINK

Excepts:

On the 10-6 record in our last 16 games

quote:

I think they’ve been better on 70-foot shots.

No, more seriously, I think some things were bound to turn around for them in terms of shot-making and close-game luck, but they also worked out a few kinks on their own. They lost all seven games without Brandon Ingram earlier this season but got him back (well, for a while). They got Jonas Valanciunas cooking, and they kinda, sorta straightened out the mess in the backcourt, at least to the point where the guards aren’t just flinging early contested shots on every trip. Herb Jones has come along nicely and looks like a long-term keeper, and even Jaxson Hayes is doing some stuff. Baby steps — they still lost to the Thunder and Rockets — but you can at least talk yourself into this team being pretty good with Zion Williamson.




On Herb

quote:

I like Jones because he’s one of the few Pelicans who has a really high ceiling on defense. He has long arms, good hands, good quickness and a good motor. He took a ton of charges at Alabama, too. I think he can be an elite on-ball defender, and he’s shown signs of that already. Off ball, I should point out that he still has a lot of work to do; he’ll get lost on the weak side pretty regularly. But the Pels having somebody they can line up against elite perimeter players is huge, especially since he has the length to “rear-view contest” on dribblers if they want to play a deep drop with Valanciunas or Williamson.

The tricky part comes with his offensive role. The Pelicans already don’t have a lot of shooting once Zion comes back; how does Jones fit with that group? Can he make enough shots to be a plausible starting 3, or does he have to come off the bench behind Zion? (And yes, I know his percentage is decent, but he has 15 makes all year and was pretty much a non-shooter at Alabama, even though all that team did was drive and kick for 3s.) Long-term, I’m willing to bet on Fred Vinson getting his shot up to snuff, but how long of a project are we talking about?

Nonetheless, all of this files under “good problem to have.” The Pelicans appear to have gotten a rotation-caliber forward with the 35th pick, one who is on a minimum deal for two more seasons, and with luck he might be a long-term starter.



On Ingram

quote:

What struck me was just how easily and confidently he was taking guys into his office — like, the second he got somebody in the midrange he could shoot over, they were dead. The other thing is the progress he’s made as a passer. He’s had to fill that role a bit more with no Lonzo Ball and no Zion this year; he’s not John Stockton or anything, but he’s definitely getting smarter with his reads as he gets more attention. The Pels have to hope this Achilles issue doesn’t keep him out too long, because there just isn’t a lot of offense left on the roster.


On Green

quote:

It’s a tough thing to get right, and what’s more is that the “right” part can change. That’s one of the trickiest things I realized on the team side: There are so many levels on which a coach has to hit the right notes. It’s one of the reasons the job is so volatile. Your coach can be the right guy for this year’s team and the absolute wrong guy for next year’s. Or he can have a short shelf life. Or he can be totally fine until he loses the trust of a key player, and then things start going sideways.

As for Green, the thing that really worried me at the outset was that the guards were constantly taking terrible shots, and the defense wasn’t fixed. Both those things seem to be better of late. Offensively, the Pelicans have been more disciplined about hitting Valanciunas on the block and not letting Nickeil Alexander-Walker just throw up whatever. I also give Green credit for quickly promoting Jones over Trey Murphy III, even though Murphy was drafted higher.

A critic would point out that the defense is still bad, and that’s even without the worst defender (Zion). But it’s getting better; the Pels have been pretty good at keeping opponents away from the rim and are second in defensive rebounding. The problem is their drop coverages are so soft that opponents feast on pull-up jumpers against them… but when your bigs are Valanciunas and Guillermo Hernangómez, I’m not sure what the alternative is supposed to be.

And, of course, the bigger-picture thing is the team didn’t let go of the rope when it had this brutal start. The Pels aren’t putting great lineups out there some nights, but they are competing.


On Zion

quote:

I am somewhat confident he will suit up, but not totally confident. I think it is more likely than not that he plays, but as more time passes without complete healing, I do worry he’ll have to have another foot surgery, which obviously would push his timeline into next year. (This wouldn’t be unprecedented, by the way.)

If he’s healthy enough to play, I think the team needs to see him play. As you said, there’s a massive financial decision in the immediate future, and the Pels need to make an informed decision. Williamson will surely be on a minutes restriction and likely won’t be in peak shape at the outset, so I don’t necessarily foresee massive implications on the Pelicans’ position in the standings when he returns.

Bigger picture, I think Williamson’s extended absence and unhappiness is a much greater concern than the specific injury. There are two elements: his health and his relationship with the team. On the latter point, the Pelicans have clearly lost control of the situation, from the initial injury and surgery, to the rehab and timeline for his return, to his conditioning (or lack thereof) while he works his way back. I’m not sure how they put that genie back in the bottle, and one wonders if it will take a different voice on the management side to get on the same page with Williamson.

And then, obviously, the general injury questions aren’t going to go away either. Can Williamson’s knees, feet and ankles handle the loads and stress he puts on them with his unique power and size? Can he manage his weight so that load is minimized? Can he still be as explosive in the wake of those adjustments? Those are very real questions that other people in the league ask.




On a Max Deal for Ziom

[quote] I don’t think the nuclear option is very realistic, especially in Williamson’s case, when there are so many injury questions. He’d have to prove quite a bit on the court, both this year and next, to make that gamble pay off.

Besides, the game NBA players and agents have learned to play is to get the bag first, then figure out if they want to stay. Asking for a trade with five years left on his deal might not be a great leverage play (just ask Ben Simmons), but in a case like Williamson’s I would make darn sure I secured my financial future before I started mulling over different team options.
This post was edited on 1/1/22 at 10:43 am
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17814 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 11:26 am to
continued:

quote:

Finally, can I whisper something the Pelicans should at least start thinking about? At what point does paying the full max become unwise? The assumption since the day Williamson was drafted was that the Pels would give him the full five-year max, but with his injury history and defending, should they at least hedge their bets a little? Is something a bit more like Joel Embiid’s deal — one with significant injury protection — a more realistic endgame?

Obviously, if Williamson retakes the court and goes gangbusters, none of this applies. But he’s played 85 career games, and his body has some clear time-bomb potential; the Pelicans at least need to discuss these things internally.




on the Grizzlies trade

quote:

For me, the issue was the process more than the result in New Orleans. The entire mindset of that deal was that the Pelicans were creating cap room to get Kyle Lowry, and they didn’t read the room correctly. I don’t even think they came in second in the Lowry sweepstakes, lemme put it that way.

So in the end they made a deal to generate a bunch of cap room… and ended up not needing it. They’re also far enough below the tax that they could still have Bledsoe’s salary on the books. So they gave up the Lakers’ 2022 first-round pick, which looks like it will be in the teens, plus they moved down their first- and second-round picks in 2021, to turn Adams into Valanciunas and whiff on Lowry. And as bad as Bledsoe was at times last year, he was still better than what they’ve gotten from Satoranský/Kira Lewis Jr./et al. this year.

At least on that last point, the Pelicans can declare victory. Getting Valanciunas was an upgrade, even if his defensive mobility is limited and his fit with Zion remains questionable; he’s just a better player than Adams. His extension makes his now-three-year deal a clearly superior one to having Adams for two years at more money, and it adds trade value, should it come to that. The Pels are also still sitting on a $17 million trade exception that could come into play as we get closer to the deadline.

Moving down from 10 to 17 may not end up hurting much either; Murphy has struggled to make an impact, but nor has Williams set the league afire. I just wish the Pels had the stones to have taken Alperen Sengün at 10.

Finally, it goes without saying that I’d feel better about that deal… much better… if they had taken the additional financial wiggle room from trading Bledsoe and used it to pay Ball and sign a warm body with their mid-level exception.




on Lonzo and Graham

quote:

I was trying to keep an open mind about the Pelicans’ eventual endgame, but yes, this looks like a giant fail. Looking back through what I wrote, it struck me that moving on from Ball to turn him into Lowry didn’t make a lot of sense given the time frames of Ingram and Williamson, but the part I really didn’t get was that even after Lowry was off the table, the Pels didn’t try to keep Ball.

The important thing to remember is Ball was a restricted free agent; even if he jumped the gun and had a deal way ahead of time with Chicago, the Pelicans still had the ability to match it and should have. Instead, the Pels seemingly equally jumped the gun with the Temple-Satoranský pupu platter.

They got little basketball equity back in that sign-and-trade, too. Satoranský has had his moments during his career, but one year at $10 million didn’t look great and turned out worse, while Temple for three years and $15 million isn’t necessarily horrible — but I doubt it would have been the Pelicans’ first choice if they had that money lying around. And on top of those two, all the Pels got was a second-round pick from Chicago. Ball is rather clearly worth more.

Obviously this has to be taken alongside the entirety of the Pelicans’ offseason dominoes, including the acquisition of Graham that depended partly on the Ball sign-and-trade. But New Orleans’ best play always seemed like keeping Ball and Josh Hart with Bird Rights and then making other additions or trades around them. For whatever reason, they didn’t do that — and, as noted above, they didn’t even use exception money to round out the roster, when perhaps the one advantage of their moves was having that money left over.




possible trades

quote:

The big question now is how much capital do the Pels realistically want to throw at chasing the Play-In Tournament? The real prize for New Orleans, it should hope, is a year from now when a healthy Zion can play with Ingram, Valanciunas, Jones and hopefully some other backcourt upgrades.

In light of that, the best short-term move is one that unites those goals by trading for somebody who is both young enough to be part of the future and signed beyond this season. Easier said than done, yes, but the Bledsoe trade exception and the Pels’ general flexibility below the tax line could make some things possible. For example, Norman Powell might cost a pretty penny in draft capital, but he fits into that exception. The discount version of the same move would be to acquire Kentavious Caldwell-Pope from Washington.

More realistically, could the Pelicans pry Cam Reddish from Atlanta? Is it worth cutting into their stockpile of future firsts to do so?

At a lower level, let me throw another familiar name out there: Buddy Hield. He likely wouldn’t cost draft equity; the Temple and Satoranský, along with one of the backup centers, might be enough to get it done. He’s been inconsistent and might fit better in a sixth-man role, but the Pels desperately need another shooter, and Hield can bomb with anybody. He’s overpaid for what he is, but the Pels’ books are clean enough to handle this.




on the final standings

quote:

I think they’re most likely on the outside looking in. The teams they’re chasing are going to end up at or near .500, and getting to a win total in the 37-40 range still seems like a big ask for this roster.

Even with the recent improved pay, the Pels still need to jump three teams in the standings just to get to 10th. Maybe pushing past Sacramento isn’t too big a hurdle, but after that, they’re looking at needing to leapfrog at least two of San Antonio, Portland, Minnesota and the Clippers. In the absence of catastrophic injuries to one or more of those teams (or a full tear-down in Portland), that’s gonna be hard.


Posted by purplepylon
NOLA & Laffy
Member since Nov 2005
7770 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 12:00 pm to
So I assume he didn't claim the team was moving to Seattle with no blowback form Guillory this time?
Posted by 504Voodoo
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2012
13532 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

So I assume he didn't claim the team was moving to Seattle with no blowback form Guillory this time?



This is what pisses me off about Hollinger, but that article is a fair and honest assessment of the Pels up to this point.
Posted by Dinky Mulberry
Member since Aug 2021
1841 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 12:40 pm to
LINK
quote:

On Herb: Off ball, I should point out that he still has a lot of work to do; he’ll get lost on the weak side pretty regularly.


I don't know enough to even comment on anybody except Herb so...here goes...Herb was GREAT in college as an off ball defender. Maybe partially due to the fact that when he had lapses, those college guys weren't sharp enough to take advantage of them. I think he will quickly learn to adapt to the more sophisticated players in the NBA. Before long, his off ball defense will likely be just as good as his on ball defense.
This post was edited on 1/1/22 at 1:07 pm
Posted by Townedrunkard
Member since Jan 2019
8795 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 12:46 pm to
So he basically said what i was saying in the off-season. Griff had no reason to go all in on Lowry. And the move for all that cap space was a disaster. We will end up giving up a pretty good lakers pick most likely. And we got reamed on the Ball trade.
Posted by Macintosh504
Leveraging Salaries University
Member since Sep 2011
52598 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 12:52 pm to
Which is all true
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422237 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 1:26 pm to
The big issue with the Ball trade is that we didn't have to do anything and would have come out ahead. Taking on salary helped Chicago meet his salary demands

I said from day 1 the Lowry pipe dream was irrational and stupid

Also, there is a future where we don't have Zion and Cam Reddish and Herbert would be a TERORR defensively to pair with BI and Jonas. We would just need that mythical 2-way point guard.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
30099 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

So he basically said what i was saying in the off-season. Griff had no reason to go all in on Lowry. And the move for all that cap space was a disaster. We will end up giving up a pretty good lakers pick most likely. And we got reamed on the Ball trade.



essentially what we all said.

The very realistic approach should have always been to go after graham AND keep Ball.

A backcourt of:
Graham, Ball, Hart, NAW, Kira is better than Graham, Hart, NAW, Kira, Satoransky, and Temple.

Posted by NOFOX
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
9934 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 2:27 pm to
Hollinger is anti-Pels for whatever reason. Take anything said with a grain of salt.
Posted by 3PieceSpicy
Metairie
Member since Jan 2021
6236 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 3:17 pm to
Would you not agree that this was a fair assessment though?

I came away impressed tbh. Very, detailed, balanced and fair summary of our team and organization right now. I can’t find anything that I personally disagree with as a realistic fan of this team.

Edit: With the exception of the Bledsoe stuff. Sure our guards leave a lot to be desired, but Bledsoe was a bit toxic here. That was a good trade overall. We just haven’t maximized the extra cap space part of it yet. Hopefully we do so as that was 1 big aspect of that trade.
This post was edited on 1/1/22 at 3:20 pm
Posted by Colonel Flagg
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2010
22790 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 3:30 pm to
Not saying everything is perfect, but trading late draft picks when we can’t even roster picks to develop players it not the end of the world. The team has a ton of young prospects.
This post was edited on 1/1/22 at 3:49 pm
Posted by BigPerm30
Member since Aug 2011
25897 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 4:43 pm to
Cliffs: Griff is a fricking idiot and wasted a lot of capital to clear cap space for Lowry who wanted no part of this team. What an arse clown.
Posted by iwyLSUiwy
I'm your huckleberry
Member since Apr 2008
34246 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 5:00 pm to
quote:

More realistically, could the Pelicans pry Cam Reddish from Atlanta? Is it worth cutting into their stockpile of future firsts to do so?


O god please no. Maybe if you throw something weak at them, but not if you have to "pry" him away.
Posted by NOFOX
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
9934 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 5:20 pm to
quote:

Edit: With the exception of the Bledsoe stuff. Sure our guards leave a lot to be desired, but Bledsoe was a bit toxic here. That was a good trade overall. We just haven’t maximized the extra cap space part of it yet. Hopefully we do so as that was 1 big aspect of that trade.


He massively undervalues the addition of JV like it was a minor upgrade over Adams.
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
110767 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 5:58 pm to
quote:

The important thing to remember is Ball was a restricted free agent; even if he jumped the gun and had a deal way ahead of time with Chicago, the Pelicans still had the ability to match it and should have.
I don't know what I'm missing but why does everyone, including a cap guru like Hollinger, keep pointing to the matching thing?

The Bulls couldn't have offered Ball without the S&T so the matching is irrelevant, no?

All we had to do was not agree to the S&T and then there's never an offer to decide to match or not. Chicago is simply removed from the list of teams Ball can go to. And if Chicago wanted him bad enough, they could have given us Thad Young and a 1st. They had zero leverage, whatever less than zero is.... that's the leverage they had. The fact that Ball wanted to be there and not here is entirely irrelevant, as it never had to be one or the other.
Posted by hugo_boss
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2012
990 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 6:23 pm to
quote:

He massively undervalues the addition of JV like it was a minor upgrade over Adams.


I guess if you want to read it like that, you can. He says JV is clearly a better player and is on a better contract. He just also mentions JV's defensive limitations and still questions his fit with Zion which, until we actually see, isn't unfair to question. I saw not one thing that he said that I haven't said myself. I don't believe we should have given up both the move back and the 1st in the Memphis trade, even for JV. I would have offered Memphis the trade back but without the 1st and we kept Bledsoe. Either trade Bledsoe the way Memphis did or hold on to him and move on next season. That toxic stuff is overplayed by fans. I remember multiple players coming to his defense last season. Also helping Chicago clear space for Ball but getting almost nothing of value and then giving a 1st to Charlotte for a player they were not going to match, even on his reasonable salary, was terrible. What made this offseason disappointing is that I believe we could have a similar caliber team while keeping our 2 1st. We also should have added a 1st for helping Chicago or resigned Ball since they couldn't have offered him an as expensive contract without clearing space.
Posted by touchdownjeebus
Member since Sep 2010
24833 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 6:48 pm to
quote:

All we had to do was not agree to the S&T and then there's never an offer to decide to match or not. Chicago is simply removed from the list of teams Ball can go to. And if Chicago wanted him bad enough, they could have given us Thad Young and a 1st. They had zero leverage, whatever less than zero is.... that's the leverage they had. The fact that Ball wanted to be there and not here is entirely irrelevant, as it never had to be one or the other.


Mother fricking this!

Also frick Rich Paul.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17814 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 7:55 pm to
quote:

I can’t find anything that I personally disagree with as a realistic fan of this team.


My biggest disagreement was when he said that getting Zion back might significantly weaken our defense, because Zion is our worst defender.

At the end of last season, Zion had become an average defender. He was a significantly better defender than BI.
Posted by Townedrunkard
Member since Jan 2019
8795 posts
Posted on 1/2/22 at 12:59 am to
quote:

essentially what we all said.


Not so fast. Go pull up the Lowry thread, majority on here wanted it to happen. Thought it would make us the suns or we needed to show Zion we were serious about winning.

I said in that thread we should be looking at trying to take a pg from either the hornets or Magic who were flush. With scary terry being our first target then Graham.

This post was edited on 1/2/22 at 1:04 am
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