re: Hollinger on the Status of the Pels

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Not really. You are correct they were both handed generational talents. Both had the chance to trade a generational talent. For whatever reason CP3 didn’t incite the bidding war and get the haul AD did. But Griff was also handed an all star calibur asset in Jrue already on the team that Dell didn’t have. And was in high demand when he wanted to be traded…

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What was David West...chopped meat?

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What was David West...chopped meat?

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to be fair, west tore his ACL that year and opted out to sign a FA deal with Indy

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The problem w the Ball deal was it was a bad deal.
Graham is irrelevant because we could’ve had both.

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It's definitely relevant. Not getting a 1st for ball but giving a 1st for Graham is bad.

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Would we be better with him this season? I think so but

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That should be the end of the conversation. Although he’s not overpaid, his contract is more team friendly every season, making him a better trade piece, if something better presents itself but the fact that you followed that with

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That is insanely silly logic. So a player making us better, no matter the cost, is automatically the right move and deserves no further discussion? So why not sign Austin Rivers to a 20 million dollar contract? Or Dennis Schrodinger or the myriad of other guards that would be an improvement to this team because we have some of the worst guard play in the league. That's not me comparing Ball to any of those players. Just saying that Ball being an improvement over what we currently have does not implicitly make resigning him the right move.

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that is more a failure on the team to fill the position than it is a credit to his skills.

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Tells me that you’re unwilling to give Lonzo any credit for any success his teams have, despite evidence proving otherwise

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What evidence proving otherwise? The Lakers were trash with Lonzo leading the team and trash without him. We were trash with Lonzo leading the team and trash without him. The bulls look great this season. They look great with Lonzo and looked great without him. Maybe he is a catalyst for the team but I'm struggling to see what you think he has shown that proves he is the/a reason the team is playing well, especially well enough to be worth his contract.

So what you're saying is "way more assets" = only Jrue Holiday? Ok

The real advantage Griffin has is ownership.

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For whatever reason CP3 didn’t incite the bidding war and get the haul AD did

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Uh, because Demps negotiated a terrible deal on his own and had to be overruled by David Stern. The return for Paul was good on paper, just like all these future picks look good on paper right now

Griffin's 2020 off-season was a disaster, but he made changes and the team still has flexibility going forward. That very rarely happened with Demps.

We'll see how it shakes out (I'm not particularly optimistic), but Demps was a two bit GM for a two bit organization.

Also, nice to see you, Corndeaux

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This is a step up from Derps.

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This is revisionist history and a distortion of the facts. Compare the talent on the team in Davis 3rd season vs Zion this year.

The 2014-15 team had Evans, Gordon, Holiday, Anderson, Davis, Asik, Miller and some other decent depth. That team underperformed and still won 45 games. Injuries, fit and bad luck stunted that group going forward. But that team was loaded and should have been Championship contenders. Especially if Davis could have led them at all..

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why not just compare Lonzo to Temple for the sake of that argument

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Yea you're right, that's a better comparison.

Lonzo is a good 3pt shooter, and he has been consistent this year. But you're You're counting a large % of Temples games as a negative when there's no reason at all they should be considered having a big impact on the game, much less costing us games. Shooting %0 in five games when you only take one 3 pointer is a crap argument. How many %0 games do you think Lonzo would have if there were nights where he only took 1?

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Point still stands, unless you're telling me Temple is worth a lotto protected 1st, we lost him for next to nothing.

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Thats not my argument. It wasnt a good trade and I used to say we should have resigned him because he would still have trade value at this coming up free agency because it wasnt a bad contract. My argument is that Temple is not nearly as bad as you're trying to make it seem.

Over the past 11 seasons he's averaged 26 mpg. Everywhere he's been since then, outside of one year with the Clippers, and with us, he's averaged over 25 mpg. And he's been healthy. There were guys a few weeks ago on here saying that if he were on any other team in the NBA, he wouldn't get a single minute. Thats just not even remotely true. Literally every team in the league would take him and he would get minutes. He's a quality vet.

Satoransky is the guy you should be dogging. He's useless.

This thread is mostly fruitless back and forth of extreme points of view.

It can be true that both the roster isn’t in shambles and Griff has made enough mistakes to be replaced.

The state of the franchise/front office may be in question. The state of Zion’s health may be in question. But I think they have the right coach in place and the roster is fine. Mistakes have absolutely been made but:

- Ingram is better than most of us expected
- Hart was a throw in that has improved enough that he replaces the value you lost by not trading Lonzo sooner for better value.
- The “worthless” late picks that have been spent so far have been turned into a 20/10 starter making $15 per year.
- Herb is a long term starter that helps make up for blowing #4

Far from perfect, and I don’t believe Griff should get a pass because he was fortunate enough to have the low probability pieces pay off after he blew the high probability pieces. But some of you only focus on the misses and act like the cupboard is bare when there is still a lot to like about this roster and the assets they have going forward.

Likewise the sunshine pumpers acting like everything is good because the Pels are close to the play in…the West is a mess this year, and the Play In is still the 10th seed. Those are pretty low bars to be measuring with.

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This was my biggest problem with the Ball trade. If the Bulls didn’t want give up higher compensation then why not sit back and let them scramble to get rid of contracts to offer Ball, then wait three days while we decide to match. Don’t think it’s possible they get Derozen either under that scenario.

And who knows, Ball could have got stuck like Lauri M and Hart did begging for an offer when everything dried up or sign a team friendly deal. We may have been able to get Ball back cheaper than what the Bulls paid. We held all the leverage and Griff just caved…..

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Yeah, I don't think the entire offseason was a disaster, but the Ball trade was an embarrassment.

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This is revisionist history and a distortion of the facts. Compare the talent on the team in Davis 3rd season vs Zion this year.

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No it isn't. Derps was atrocious. Even when he put together talent, it was extremely redundant and ill-balanced, hence jettisoning a quality center (Lopez) for the king of empty stats (Tyrec), only to have to turn around and overspend for mediocre to bad centers.

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The 2014-15 team had Evans, Gordon, Holiday, Anderson, Davis, Asik, Miller and some other decent depth.

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Did you seriously just include Asik and Miller in that?