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Message
re: Pope Denounces ‘Hypocrisy’ of Those Who Criticize LGBT Blessings
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:12 pm to 4cubbies
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:12 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Jesus hung out with prostitutes.
No, he reformed prostitutes.
He told them to sin no more.
Stop with this New-Age bullshite "Jesus was like a totally hip dude!" that is sending people down the wrong path by thinking their continuing to sin is "ok" cause like " Jesus totally hung out with thugs."
2
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:14 pm to L.A.
A pop culture pope from South America. At least his old country has moved to the right.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:14 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
The church didn't bless crooked businessmen back in the day. Jesus hung out with prostitutes. Jesus didn’t die for our sins to save the nonexistent perfect people of the world. We’re all sinners. Including me and you.
Where in my post did I mention 'Jesus'?
The 'church' is not 'Jesus.' But if you disagree with my assessment of old school Catholicism then tell me about it.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:22 pm to LSUA 75
quote:
From my experience there are a whole lot of hypocritical Catholics.
Liberator levied a charge of Heresy, not hypocrisy, so, I'm hoping that he'll answer my request to be more specific.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:22 pm to Zach
The Church consists of disciples of Jesus. Followers of the Most High. If you think Jesus isn’t relevant when discussing the Church, I don’t have anything else to say.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:25 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
No, he reformed prostitutes.
He told them to sin no more.
And you think the best way for sinners to be transformed by Jesus is to exclude them from the Church and blessings?
quote:
that is sending people down the wrong path by thinking their continuing to sin is "ok" cause like " Jesus totally hung out with thugs."
Since I’m also a sinner, I don’t feel comfortable judging which sinners are deserving of blessings and which sinners aren’t.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:26 pm to Zach
quote:
The church didn't bless crooked businessmen back in the day.
The Church certainly never blessed crooked business dealings and only a muddled thinker would suggest otherwise. Yet muddled thinking seems to be the modus operandi of this Jesuit Pope.
I’m tired of seeing Catholics defend these pronouncements which border on apostasy. Instead of bringing clarity and light to matters of Catholic doctrine, Pope Frances sows confusion and creates scandal.
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 3:27 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:30 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
And you think the best way for sinners to be transformed by Jesus is to exclude them from the Church and blessings?
If they are openly living in sin and refusing to stop said sin... the yes.
quote:
Since I’m also a sinner, I don’t feel comfortable judging which sinners are deserving of blessings and which sinners aren’t.
True, we are all sinners, but we all don't (or shouldn't) continue to live our lives in open sin.
"I know stealing/cohabitating outside of marriage/acting on my perceived gay tendencies/etc is wrong, but i'm going to do it anyways" If that is your attitude, I truly have to question your salvation.
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:33 pm to LSUA 75
You're right..it's petty. I'm not surprised that those who criticize members of the Catholic church and the church itself concerning minor things such as this are ignorant of the differences between doctrine and discipline.
If you're honest you would admit that you were looking for a way out and if it wasn't this "issue" it would have been something else, an excuse not a reason.
If you're honest you would admit that you were looking for a way out and if it wasn't this "issue" it would have been something else, an excuse not a reason.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:37 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
but we all don't (or shouldn't) continue to live our lives in open sin.
We all live in overt sin. Every time anyone says or does anything uncharitable, that’s open sin. Every cuss word or unkind word spoken is open sin. Sins of omission are overt, open sins.
Of course we should strive to be sinless, but we all understand that our fallen human condition precludes us from achieving that.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:43 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Here's the thing though, and this is where Pope Francis really needs to clarify, the priest is not blessing the actions of the businessman. He's blessing the businessman. Is the priest blessing the relationship or is he simply blessing the people in the relationship?
Gah you guys aren't even trying. GO READ THE DOCUMENT. They have come out and clarified multiple times, but the document clearly says it's not blessing the union, it's blessing the people. Nevertheless, people wanted to point out the use of the word "couple" as if it undermines the clear statement at the beginning of the document that says (below is an actual quote from the document):
quote:
the Church does not have the power to impart blessings on unions of persons of the same sex.
Then two weeks ago, the Pope came out and said it again just to make sure the point was clear:
Pope Francis: Bless the persons, not the union
Thing is, no one reports it. And none of the irrational Catholic-hating people on this board care to actually read anything except the BS gossip.
Excerpt from the link above for those who don't want to click:
quote:
The purpose of the “pastoral and spontaneous blessings” discussed in the Declaration, the Pope stressed, is to “concretely show the closeness of the Lord and the Church to all those who, finding themselves in different situations, ask for help to continue—sometimes to begin—a journey of faith.”
In this regard, the Pope emphasized two points.
Firstly, he said, “these blessings, outside of any liturgical context and form, do not require moral perfection to be received.”
Secondly, he noted, “when a couple spontaneously approaches [a minister] and asks for them, he is not blessing the union, but simply the people who together have requested it.”
“Not the union,” the Pope stressed, “but the persons, naturally taking into account the context, sensitivities, the places where one lives, and the most appropriate ways to do it.”
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:49 pm to L.A.
If the Pope wants to bless same sex marriage, that's 100% a-okay in my book. My concern was never that religions might choose to bless/conduct same sex marriage. My concern was, and still is, that they will eventually be forced to do so.
Meanwhile, gay folks should be mighty pissed the Pope is comparing their sexual physiology with someone else's choice to be corrupt.
Meanwhile, gay folks should be mighty pissed the Pope is comparing their sexual physiology with someone else's choice to be corrupt.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:49 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
The Church consists of disciples of Jesus. Followers of the Most High. If you think Jesus isn’t relevant when discussing the Church, I don’t have anything else to say.
You have blasphemed Father Zach. To get 50 years of indulgence off of your sentence to Purgatory you must take your rosary and pray at the stations of the cross at your nearest church with stained glass windows. Only then shall I sprinkle Holy Water on your face.
Now go....and sin no more.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:53 pm to LSUA 75
quote:
If you did it was a mortal sin and if you died without going to confession you went straight to hell.
I'm sorry you experienced this. I'm sorry that it lead you away from the Church of Jesus Christ. In the past I reflected quite a bit on this. I too have experienced bouts of guilt stemming from hurt caused by people within the Church. Some of that hurt still rises, occasionally, to the surface till this day. Fortunately, I had a good holy confessor (they're still out there - ask Our Lady to lead you to one) who warned me satan often dangles our hurts and sins in front of us. He told me to say the Chaplet of Mercy (CoM) every day. The CoM is quick and easy to say. I once recited the Chaplet of Mercy in front of a hardened sinner - a woman in the final moments of dying of cancer. Right before my eyes (in front of twelve witnesses) she sat up in her hospital bed and blurted out,"I choose God"! Then collapsed and died soon after. Yep, she converted right before our eyes. Such is the power of prayer. But I digress. I've always stayed close to the Sacraments, especially Sacramental Confession. One unchanging truth - Jesus gave power to forgive sin to His Apostles. Whereupon the Apostles passed that 'power to free people from bondage to sin' across millenia to that Priest (Personal Christi) sitting in that confessional waiting for me.
Which brings me to this event in my life. A long time ago I went to confession and spilled out my frustration as to what I perceived was my failure at being holy. It was the Carmelite Saint Therese of Lisieux (the Little Flower) who helped me to realize I was afflicted with a case of scruples . She led me to a good and wise confessor, I know she did. Regardless, the confessor listened to me patiently, gave me some prayers to say for my penance. Then without hesitation told me that from that day forward, everyday without fail, I was to ask myself this question - How does God Love me?
Well, I still do that - ask that simple question. Ultimately, it led me to the Passion of Christ. I studied and meditated on the Passion, even read a doctors description of how Jesus died. Attended a presentation by former NASA engineers (converts to Christianity) involved in research on the Shroud of Turin. I'll only say their research and technology available to them resulted in Our Lord's Face leaping at us from the Shroud. It was not the sanitized face of Jesus I was familiar with but that of a tormented Jesus with lacerations, broken nose, and a swollen eye. Another defining moment in understanding Our Lord's suffering was was when I read Anne Catherine Emmerich's book [i]The Visions of Anne Catherine Emmerich. Anne Catherine Emmerich was blessed with visions of our Lord's Passion. Let me say here, the Church moves very slow when it comes to approving visions and such - The Church declared Anne Catherine's visions to be real and approved. That book was the basis for Mel Gibson's movie The Passion of the Christ. Of all the heartbreaking accounts of Our Lord's suffering described in that book, the one incident that left me in tears (literally) was the moment Our Lord's blood and strips of his sacred flesh were flung out over the crowd by his executioners as they brutally whipped Him. Some of His sacred blood and torn flesh splashed on our Blessed Mother. So traumatic was that scene Our Lady fainted.
I remember reflecting on the heartbreaking scene and from within me rose the thought - He did this FOR ME? Is there another God like our God?
Okay I'm a sinner, I'll never be rid of my inordinate attachments as long as I live on this fallen world. God will set me free from myself someday - maybe soon. For the time I'm here on earth - I just want to give Him my best. He loved me when I didn't love myself. He went looking for me when I sinned and felt ashamed. Every single day in countless seemingly insignifcant events he reminds me of His love.
I belong to Him. The day I was baptized I received his indelible mark on my soul - a Catholic Priest made that mark on my soul. He claimed me as His own - I belong to Him.
I will pray for you brother. Please do the same for me.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:54 pm to L.A.
The Catholic Church talking about crooked businessmen is rich.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:55 pm to 4cubbies
The problem imo isn’t with the document. It is whether the Vatican actually enforces the document.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:55 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
No, he reformed prostitutes.
He told them to sin no more.
The Gospel reading at Mass today was Jesus’ cleansing of a leper found in the 1st Chapter of Mark:
A man suffering from leprosy came to him and pleaded on his knees saying, 'If you are willing, please cleanse me.'
Feeling mercy for him, Jesus stretched out his hand, touched him and said to him, 'I am willing. Be cleansed.'
And at once the affliction left him and he was cleansed.
And at once Jesus sternly sent him away and said to him: 'Mind you tell no one anything, but go and show yourself to the priest, and make the offering for your cleansing prescribed by Moses as evidence to them.'
In biblical times, lepers of course were treated as untouchables and outcast from their community. Jesus thus restores humanity, wholeness and happiness to this outcast.
The lesson as I read it was that that without the saving Grace of Christ, we all are outcasts from God’s divine Providence. Jesus cleanses all of our sins and makes us whole again.
Yet only by being cleansed of sin are we allowed back into the community of believers. Someone openly living a sinful lifestyle is still afflicted in the disease of sin just as a person suffering from leprosy is still suffering from the skin disease.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:57 pm to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
he document clearly says it's not blessing the union, it's blessing the people
Who are openly and defiantly continuing to live in open sin. And, by virtue of that fact, they clearly ARE blessing the union. Or do they wink at them when doing the blessing as if to say "We know what you are doing, but it's okay"?
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:59 pm to L.A.
The pope is a disgrace and a idiot.
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