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Message
re: Pope Denounces ‘Hypocrisy’ of Those Who Criticize LGBT Blessings
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:33 pm to CatholicLSUDude
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:33 pm to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
But thinking the document was a disaster is very different from thinking the Pope has changed Church teaching that homosexuality is a sin, which many people think he has.
You are far more generous in your assessment of this Jesuit Pope’s agenda than I.
I myself once gave him the benefit of the doubt and argued that though his personal inclination was to present matters of faith in shades of gray, I took him at his word that his goal was simply to make sure the Church door was opened to all:
Pope Francis Apologizes That Amazon Synod ‘Pachamama’ Was Thrown Into Tiber River
Yet Pope Francis’ continual reliance upon solipsistic casuistry to defend his sloppily-worded pronouncements and his equivocal statements on questions of morality and faith led me to question if he harbored ulterior motives beyond mere inclusion.
More importantly, his vindictive spirit when addressing criticism of the ambiguity that is inherent to his statements has brought me to a different and more malicious conclusion.
Ambiguous words lend themselves to different interpretations and conclusions depending upon who is reading them and this thus opens the door to moral relevancy, which is diametrically opposed to Christ-like inclusion.
As Cardinal Müller indicates, when it comes to matters of mortal sin, we have no choice as faithful Catholics but to unequivocally proclaim the Catechism in bold and primary colors:
….I think with all these interviews and interpretations of the interpretation of interpretations, things are not getting better. Go back to the clarity of the word of God, and what is said in the Catechism, and not this bowing down to this absolutely wrong LGBT and woke ideology. That is not modern; that is a falling back to the old paganism.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 4:37 pm
2
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:40 pm to L.A.
This pope wont be seeing any pearly gates
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 2/12/24 at 2:10 pm to Toomer Deplorable
Most of this is fair to discuss, and I'd probably agree with you on many points (though I think you've fallen a bit into the conspiratorial narrative pushed by protestants and sedevacantists). My main concern, again, is pointing out for this board that Francis has not changed the Church's teachings on homosexuality or marriage, and he's clearly stated that's not what he's trying to do. That's the piece that concerns me most, and it should a focal point for Catholics on this particular forum since so many people here are poorly informed about how Church teaching works and what the document actually says.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 3:52 pm to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
Most of this is fair to discuss, and I'd probably agree with you on many points (though I think you've fallen a bit into the conspiratorial narrative pushed by protestants and sedevacantists).
It is not a kooky conspiracy theory to suggest that this Jesuit Pope is a far-left progressive who regularly indulges the partisan excesses he is so quick to condemn in others. It is simply an observation of an indisputable fact:
quote:
My main concern, again, is pointing out for this board that Francis has not changed the Church's teachings on homosexuality or marriage, and he's clearly stated that's not what he's trying to do.
3. things:
1.) No Pope has been invested to change the received word of God.
2.) Pope Francis repeatedly has demonstrated he is a vile hypocrite who talks out of both sides of his mouth.
3.) As it has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, there are progressive factions in the Western Church and indeed in Rome that do seek to change the Church’s teaching on human sexuality and anyone who denies that are the true kooks in this discussion.
Since we both are repeating ourselves at this point, you may have the last word if you so choose.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 7:27 pm
Posted on 2/12/24 at 4:08 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
quote:
The current Pope is the epitome of hypocrisy and has totally sold out the Catholic religion.
Yep, and you wonder why people like myself, born and raised Catholic, no longer go to Church.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 4:29 pm to Champagne
quote:
Champagne
quote:
Bless the Sinner not the Sin is not heretical.
Huh? Is THAT what the Pope is doing in formally blessing a sinful relationship? (please understand what a "blessing" is in a legal sense in God's eyes) Romans has a lot to say about the subject.
("Bless the Sinner not the Sin") Which chapter of the Bible is that convenient but erroneous self-serving verse found?
The sad truth my RCC brothers have to concede; This Pope isn't only Heretic, he a Commie-first Jesuit (NOT Christian), possesses ZERO knowledge of Holy Scripture; does not teach the Word of Jesus Christ or Gospels; is political in a subversive way; and is seemingly repping non-Christian-Pagan philosophies and trying to soften his version of RCC in order recruit non-Christians in order to help create a One Wold Religion.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 4:43 pm to Champagne
quote:
quote:
Why are heretical policies and positions tolerated of the
"Leader" of the RCC church that lead millions astray?
quote:
Be specific in naming the "heretical policies" that you find intolerable.
Sure.
Letter signed by more than 1,500 accuses Pope Francis of the 'canonical delict of heresy'
Four Novus Ordo Bishops accuse Francis of HERESY
USA: 4 AMERICAN BISHOPS REGARD BERGOGLIO AS A HERETIC
And here's one of Francis fronting Liberation Theology (NOT found in the Bible either)
The Solved Conflict: Pope Francis and Liberation Theology
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 4:44 pm
Posted on 2/12/24 at 4:49 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
More importantly, his vindictive spirit when addressing criticism of the ambiguity that is inherent to his statements has brought me to a different and more malicious conclusion.
It's unavoidable. There is no "benefit of the doubt" to give this guy.
By definition, a "Vicar" of Christ" = "Earthly Representative of Christ".
Francis is the antithesis of Jesus Christ -- which makes him popular with those who do not abide in His Gospel, Word and Laws. (coincidentally the definition of "Heretic".)
Posted on 2/12/24 at 10:24 pm to Liberator
I'm not convinced that is in fact a heretic, but, the articles you shared with us are compelling.
Here's my take:
Pope Francis is a man rooted firmly in Leftist political ideology. He is a Leftist. It's his personal political World View that shapes his Papacy.
This World View is totally alien to mainstream American Culture, so, Pope Francis won't likely help to grow the RCC here in America.
He is the wrong man for the job of Pope, IMHO, because of his Leftist World View.
I'll be praying that the next Pope is a conservative that understands and embraces the conservative values that the church-going Americans share.
Here's my take:
Pope Francis is a man rooted firmly in Leftist political ideology. He is a Leftist. It's his personal political World View that shapes his Papacy.
This World View is totally alien to mainstream American Culture, so, Pope Francis won't likely help to grow the RCC here in America.
He is the wrong man for the job of Pope, IMHO, because of his Leftist World View.
I'll be praying that the next Pope is a conservative that understands and embraces the conservative values that the church-going Americans share.
Posted on 2/13/24 at 6:30 am to Liberator
I'll read through your links later but here is an interesting video which relates to what you have posted. It's not a direct response of course but I'm sure he responds to the same arguments made in your articles.
Trent Horn responds to Fr. Altman
edit: it's long but worth a watch
Trent Horn responds to Fr. Altman
edit: it's long but worth a watch
This post was edited on 2/13/24 at 6:53 am
Posted on 2/13/24 at 7:17 am to L.A.
I denounce this "woke Pope". 
Posted on 2/13/24 at 8:57 am to catholictigerfan
I like Trent Horn a lot but, could you summarize his points for us?
Posted on 2/13/24 at 9:11 am to Champagne
quote:
Pope Francis is a man rooted firmly in Leftist political ideology. He is a Leftist. It's his personal political World View that shapes his Papacy.
This World View is totally alien to mainstream American Culture, so, Pope Francis won't likely help to grow the RCC here in America.
He is the wrong man for the job of Pope, IMHO, because of his Leftist World View.
I'll be praying that the next Pope is a conservative that understands and embraces the conservative values that the church-going Americans share.
This. And I think the Church so easily relents to superficial Vatican II peace and love (a misinterpretation, but that's a longer discussion), that most of where Pope Francis operates from is the Leftist world view mixed with soft Vatican II ideals.
And it's just way too fuzzy. They play into the grey area that post-modern creates and it's frustrating.
Posted on 2/13/24 at 10:16 am to Freauxzen
Let me expand just a bit further, when I surmise WRT to what makes this Pope "tick".
He embraces the Christian's task/burden of actively working to make a world of Justice and a world of Peace. Now, in so doing, he processes and analyzes through the prism of his political World View, which is, what? Leftism.
Not just any "Leftism", though. He comes from Argentina, which has a "Leftism" that's not exactly like International Leftism. His Leftism is less harmful, but, still quite alien to the Anglo-Irish / Anglo-Saxon Culture that dominated here in the USA (until recently, but that's another story).
Pope Francis doesn't approve of this A-I / A-S Culture of the USA because he sees it as selfish amassing of wealth at the expense of less fortunate neighbors. As such, many Americans can sense his dislike for this "American Way of Life" and they reciprocate his dislike.
So, as he works for a World of Justice and Peace, his work will reflect his Argentinian Leftist World View, and this is an alien World View to affluent Americans.
He embraces the Christian's task/burden of actively working to make a world of Justice and a world of Peace. Now, in so doing, he processes and analyzes through the prism of his political World View, which is, what? Leftism.
Not just any "Leftism", though. He comes from Argentina, which has a "Leftism" that's not exactly like International Leftism. His Leftism is less harmful, but, still quite alien to the Anglo-Irish / Anglo-Saxon Culture that dominated here in the USA (until recently, but that's another story).
Pope Francis doesn't approve of this A-I / A-S Culture of the USA because he sees it as selfish amassing of wealth at the expense of less fortunate neighbors. As such, many Americans can sense his dislike for this "American Way of Life" and they reciprocate his dislike.
So, as he works for a World of Justice and Peace, his work will reflect his Argentinian Leftist World View, and this is an alien World View to affluent Americans.
Posted on 2/13/24 at 6:31 pm to Champagne
quote:
I like Trent Horn a lot but, could you summarize his points for us?
Simply put Trent Horn is pointing out that Pope Francis while you could argue that he has made poor decisions in his papacy, that is something completely different than calling him a heretic.
The catechism says the following
quote:
Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."
My opinion is that the Pope hasn't even come close to this. While he has said some controversial things, to have fallen into heresy is completely different.
I think what Trent was trying to do in his video is follow the logic of Fr. Altman to it's conclusion, basically based on the arguments he made about how Pope Francis isn't Pope, by the same logic you must argue that JPII wasn't Pope, Benedict XVI wasn't Pope. He went even as far to say that St. Peter wasn't Pope based on Altman's logic.
I've had a busy day so I haven't had the time to look individually at all of the claims made in the articles posted but I thought Trent Horns take was interesting.
Posted on 2/13/24 at 7:01 pm to Liberator
So about these articles you posted I’m not going to go into the article and address each individual point but I will give my general thoughts on the matter.
I think the majority of the criticisms are reading their own bias into what the Pope says. A classic example is in the second link you posted. They claim that Pope Francis is committing heresy by saying that only faith is required to recieve holy communion. I could easily read it another way. Based on what I read about everyone being invited to the supper of the lamb is that God, who desires that all be saved, desires that all come to the wedding feast of the lamb. Being that is scriptural I don't see an issue with it. The wedding feast of the lamb is scriptural imagery for heaven. You may have a theological disagreement with what Pope Francis but that is far from heresy.
Another issue with these articles is their bias comes through in their articles, and they come from a perspective that since Pius XII no Pope has been legitimately elected.
I think the most you can reasonably say about Pope Francis is that he has made many poor judgments in his words and his actions. But this is far from being a heretic.
Hope everyone is having a nice Mardi Gras. For the Catholics in the thread, have a good start to your lent!
I think the majority of the criticisms are reading their own bias into what the Pope says. A classic example is in the second link you posted. They claim that Pope Francis is committing heresy by saying that only faith is required to recieve holy communion. I could easily read it another way. Based on what I read about everyone being invited to the supper of the lamb is that God, who desires that all be saved, desires that all come to the wedding feast of the lamb. Being that is scriptural I don't see an issue with it. The wedding feast of the lamb is scriptural imagery for heaven. You may have a theological disagreement with what Pope Francis but that is far from heresy.
Another issue with these articles is their bias comes through in their articles, and they come from a perspective that since Pius XII no Pope has been legitimately elected.
I think the most you can reasonably say about Pope Francis is that he has made many poor judgments in his words and his actions. But this is far from being a heretic.
Hope everyone is having a nice Mardi Gras. For the Catholics in the thread, have a good start to your lent!
Posted on 2/14/24 at 4:09 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
have a good start to your lent!
I do not like Lent, but, I think that is OK, because Lent is not supposed to be Fun.
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