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Posted on 2/11/24 at 9:57 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
But by blessing a sinner who you know will continue to live in that sin (in this case homosexual marriage) are you, in effect, blessing the act as well as the sinner?
Exactly. And no amount of hermeneutical acrobatics, intellectual tightrope walking or other “clarifications” by Pope Francis or his sycophants changes that primary objection.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 9:58 pm to L.A.
frick this pope
Posted on 2/11/24 at 10:06 pm to Houag80
quote:
I know many devout Catholics, I am not one, who despise this current pope
Look no further
Posted on 2/11/24 at 10:13 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
It's coming. The current crop of priests being ordained in this day and age are among the most conservative we have seen in generations. It might take a decade or two but the liberalization of the Catholic Church will soon be at an end. Christ always wins in the end.
Further, the Church is stagnant, if not dying on the vine, in much of the West.
Yet the church is seeing dynamic growth in those parts of Eastern Europe, Africa and Asia where Catholic doctrine is vigorously reinforced by the prelates in those dioceses.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 10:51 pm to L.A.
Not my pope
Posted on 2/11/24 at 10:55 pm to Snipe
quote:
new Pope
Um, this Jesuit empty cassock has been screwing up 2000 yrs of RCC for over a decade now
Posted on 2/11/24 at 10:58 pm to Houag80
quote:
Several are seriously considering leaving the Catholic church for an alternative.
No such thing
Posted on 2/12/24 at 7:18 am to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
If you can overlook the bloody and corrupt history of the Catholic church, surely you can overlook this communist progressive pope.
You don't have to overlook anything if you surrender yourself to God's will, confess with you mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Christ. and follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
As Jesus said, "He who has ears let him hear."
The people who are so angry because they feel this Pope and others are destroying that church are lost and following false gods. God's church and His will can never be destroyed and defeated. Put your faith and trust in God and not in man, or men. To other who claim the satan has infiltrated the catholic Church, It's true, satan has indeed. The evil one walks to and fro upon the earth and freely enters all congregations. There is not a place on this Earth that satan does not have access, and all churches are no exception. That is why Jesus said it is so important to guard and protect your hearts. That is why God's first two commandments are Love. Satan does not attack those furthest from God, He already owns them. The closer you get to God the more fiercely satan will come for you.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 8:11 am to L.A.
He’s still clarifying, I see.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 8:21 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
quote:
But by blessing a sinner who you know will continue to live in that sin (in this case homosexual marriage) are you, in effect, blessing the act as well as the sinner?
Exactly. And no amount of hermeneutical acrobatics, intellectual tightrope walking or other “clarifications” by Pope Francis or his sycophants changes that primary objection.
This just isn't true. And proving you're wrong doesn't require "hermeneutical acrobatics, intellectual tightrope walking, or further clarifications". Catholic priests have long blessed people in a state of mortal sin when they approach the altar at communion. Never before has this blessing been interpreted as blessing their mortal sins.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 8:24 am
Posted on 2/12/24 at 8:35 am to RockyMtnTigerWDE
quote:
the Catholic religion
Catholic Denomination, Christianity is a religion.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 8:48 am to Snipe
quote:
The closer you get to God the more fiercely satan will come for you.
The RCC is nothing like the church Jesus founded. Nothing.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 9:06 am to LuckyTiger
quote:
He’s still clarifying, I see.
All the while, this Jesuit Pope is characterizing those who sincerely seek clarification on the many questions raised by the ambiguity of the language in Fiducia Supplicans as hateful hypocrites.
Pope Francis is a spiteful and unreflective man who regularly blame-shifts for his own failings and is thus guilty of the very hypocrisy he so readily sees in others:
“Sometimes decisions are not accepted…But in most cases, when you don’t accept a decision, it’s because you don’t understand…The danger is when I don’t like something and I set it in my heart, I become a resistance and come to ugly conclusions…This has happened with this last decision about blessing everyone.”
Posted on 2/12/24 at 9:23 am to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
The RCC is nothing like the church Jesus founded. Nothing.
He who has ear let him hear.
Knock and the door will be opened.
Seek and you shall find.
People focus on the evil one too much. Yes he is everywhere, but so is God. Focus on God and you will realize that He has already won. Why not celebrate in His victory instead of fighting a battle that He has already won.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 9:37 am to LSUbest
I picked my wording purposely and accurately.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 9:57 am to Snipe
quote:
I do not understand Gods plan for this new Pope but I trust Gods plan.
I know for sure that this new progressivism and push by the left to further interject anti morality into human life is satans plan to separate Gods people from His grace and love.
I have criticized the Catholic Church and still don’t understand why certain things are the way they are. But I do know it’s all Gods plan and that’s never wrong. Does it mean God has evolved and changed his opinion about homosexuality and other deviant lifestyle? Absolutely not. But what it has done is cause a lot of people especially Christians to seek Gods truth on the subject and reinforcing their faith.
So even though I can be confused about some things in the Church and maybe not agree with them to my understanding. I can return to one Apostolic Catholic Church and serve God and be in communion with Him.
All things work for the Glory of God and all things will be made right.
I respect your faith and your decision, but why follow a leader that's becoming so comfortable with the world and it's insanity?
Posted on 2/12/24 at 10:08 am to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
Catholic priests have long blessed people in a state of mortal sin when they approach the altar at communion.
I said above that every time a priest offers a blessing he is blessing a sinner since we all fall short of the glory of God.
Indeed, priests already have the discretion to offer pastoral blessings upon sinners so the Fiducia Supplicans was thus an extraneous declaration.
quote:
Never before has this blessing been interpreted as blessing their mortal sins.
And never before has the Church issued a radical declaration of this nature about those living in a state of mortal sin: the language in Fiducia Supplicans is singularly focused on “irregular” relationships and thus shifts the focus away from the sinner and towards the sinful behavior itself.
Whether you acknowledge it or not, Fiducia Supplicans is a horrifically divisive document that has unnecessarily created tremendous discord and scandal in the Church.
Pope Francis’ vitriolic attempts to address these concerns has only inflamed that situation.
Cardinal Gerhard Müller — who once headed the Vatican’s office of doctrinal affairs — has rightly argued the ambiguous language in Fiducia Supplicans is self-contradictory and raises more questions than it answers:
Efforts To Explain ‘Fiducia Supplicans’ Add To Confusion Over Document….
Q: Your Eminence, at a recent plenary of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Pope reiterated that blessings of irregular relationships should be spontaneous, non-liturgical, and not require moral perfection, that it’s about the blessing of individuals, not the union. But if this is the case, was there a need for such a document, as such individual blessings are already permitted?
A: There was no need for this document, but now the later interpretations are relativizing themselves and they are only deepening, widening the confusion. They cannot explain what the difference is between a liturgical and the private benediction. They are putting forward a nebulous connotation instead of saying what is absolutely clear in the Gospel, the word of Jesus Christ, transmitted to us in the Old and New Testament. How dare we, as the servants of Jesus Christ, make this Divine teaching unclear with mere human sophistry?
Q: Some commentators are saying this document was needed in order to stop the Church in Germany, in particular, from going ahead with full-scale, liturgical same-sex blessings, that this will help prevent such a thing from happening. What do you say to that?
A: We cannot resolve the problems around the German bishops with these diplomatic maneuvers. We must say the truth: That it is blasphemy; that it is a sin. You can betray yourself, you can betray the others, but nobody can betray God. We must say the truth, not because we are saints and the others are sinners. If I preach the Gospel, I am under the judgment of the Gospel. The preacher himself must be a model of all. He must make great efforts to give good examples, to underline the faith with the credibility of the preachers. But he has to say the word of God, which makes us free, and not to present himself as more liberal and open-minded than God, who offered his own Son for the salvation of the world.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 10:53 am
Posted on 2/12/24 at 10:44 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
but why follow a leader that's becoming so comfortable with the world and it's insanity?
My leader is Christ.
There are none more right and powerful and just as he.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 10:45 am
Posted on 2/12/24 at 10:53 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
And never before has the Church issued a radical declaration of this nature about those living in a state of mortal sin: the language in Fiducia Supplicans is singularly focused on “irregular” relationships and thus shifts the focus away from the sinner and towards the sinful behavior itself.
Whether you acknowledge it or not, Fiducia Supplicans is a horrifically divisive document that has created tremendous division and scandal in the Church.
Right, so this is a different issue than the one I was responding to, which was:
quote:quote:
But by blessing a sinner who you know will continue to live in that sin (in this case homosexual marriage) are you, in effect, blessing the act as well as the sinner?
Exactly. And no amount of hermeneutical acrobatics, intellectual tightrope walking or other “clarifications” by Pope Francis or his sycophants changes that primary objection.
In fact, blessing a sinful person doesn't mean you bless the sin. That was my point, and it seems you agree.
To me, the larger issue here is that there are two issues at hand and they get blended together in the public forum. They are interconnected, but they are not the same.
First is the question of whether or not the document changes the Church's teaching regarding the invalidity or sinfulness of same-sex unions. It does not, yet this is what a lot of people think is happening.
The second is whether or not the document was ill-conceived and poorly worded. I actually agree with you that it was. I actually mostly agree with what Muller says in your post. I think it should have been obvious from the start that it would cause confusion. Cardinal Sarah recently said something like, "The greatest mercy you can show someone is the truth." I agree with Cardinal Sarah here too. I do dislike Francis's apparent hesitation to say things clearly because they might hurt someone's feelings.
But thinking the document was a disaster is very different from thinking the Pope has changed Church teaching that homosexuality is a sin, which many people think he has. Heck, he cited the 2021 document that clearly calls it a sin in Fiducia Supplicans.
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