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Started By
Message
Should German people be ashamed of WWII
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:21 am
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:21 am
What are your thoughts? The German people have basically censored this entire period in their country’s past. It’s taboo to mention it in mixed company. There are laws against owning items that could be viewed as glorifying the war.
My opinion, it’s silly to pretend that the war didn’t happen. They shouldn’t be ashamed that their grandfathers fought bravely and ultimately lost to the Allies. They had a crazy dictator, but the front line troops were just following orders...go fight for the mother land. That’s a familiar rallying cry. Imagine their soldiers returning to what was left of their homes after the war just to be forgotten, or worse, lumped in with the Nazis and war criminals.
Truth be told, they were one of the finest armies to have ever been assembled. They were responsible for progressing technology at a pace that wasn’t duplicated again for almost 50 years. They righted what they perceived as a wrong by sacking France and restoring some nationalistic pride after WWI. They rolled through Europe like Attila through Asia. It took the combined might of the US (post Pearl Harbor) and the UK to reel them back in.
To me, their soldiers had no reason to hang their heads. The Nazis deserved to be remembered as villains, but not the regular army. Up to the early 2,000’s, we were still studying and utilizing their tactics.
Years ago, I served with the first German soldiers to deploy out of Germany since the end of the war. They were determined to pretend as if the war never happened. It stuck with me for some reason...bothered me in a way.
My opinion, it’s silly to pretend that the war didn’t happen. They shouldn’t be ashamed that their grandfathers fought bravely and ultimately lost to the Allies. They had a crazy dictator, but the front line troops were just following orders...go fight for the mother land. That’s a familiar rallying cry. Imagine their soldiers returning to what was left of their homes after the war just to be forgotten, or worse, lumped in with the Nazis and war criminals.
Truth be told, they were one of the finest armies to have ever been assembled. They were responsible for progressing technology at a pace that wasn’t duplicated again for almost 50 years. They righted what they perceived as a wrong by sacking France and restoring some nationalistic pride after WWI. They rolled through Europe like Attila through Asia. It took the combined might of the US (post Pearl Harbor) and the UK to reel them back in.
To me, their soldiers had no reason to hang their heads. The Nazis deserved to be remembered as villains, but not the regular army. Up to the early 2,000’s, we were still studying and utilizing their tactics.
Years ago, I served with the first German soldiers to deploy out of Germany since the end of the war. They were determined to pretend as if the war never happened. It stuck with me for some reason...bothered me in a way.
This post was edited on 3/4/20 at 1:14 pm
60
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:23 am to salty1
Aren’t they?
Fairly sure they don’t even like discussing it.
Why is it silly? Not sure why you’d want to remind your people of your country murdering 11+ million people.
Fairly sure they don’t even like discussing it.
quote:
My opinion, it’s silly to pretend that the war didn’t happen.
Why is it silly? Not sure why you’d want to remind your people of your country murdering 11+ million people.
This post was edited on 3/4/20 at 9:25 am
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:24 am to salty1
Well, they're white so they should be ashamed of everything they do.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:26 am to salty1
Well it isn't exactly a proud moment in their history, but the people of Germany today shouldn't be ashamed, as they were not part of it.
On the other hand, I don't think they should be proud of it either
It's like slavery here in the US. It happened. We acknowledge that it happened. We learn from it. We move on.
On the other hand, I don't think they should be proud of it either
It's like slavery here in the US. It happened. We acknowledge that it happened. We learn from it. We move on.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:28 am to salty1
I don't think anyone should be ashamed of anything they had nothing to do with.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:28 am to salty1
quote:
pinoff: Should German people be ashamed of WWII
Its kind of like LSU fans and 1/9/11..... why even talk about it. We got our asses handed to us on our home soil. We conquered the SEC and the nation to only lose at the end to a team we had defeated (Germany defeating the U.S. in North Africa before Patton took command) earlier in the season.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:29 am to salty1
I think you said it well in the OP. Today's citizens shouldn't turn a blind eye to what happened but the needn't be embarrassed by it.
It happened, to deny that is silly, but more importantly, dangerous. They feel under the 'spell' of a madman...I wonder where they would be as a country if the Russians hadn't had control of so much of them for so long.
It happened, to deny that is silly, but more importantly, dangerous. They feel under the 'spell' of a madman...I wonder where they would be as a country if the Russians hadn't had control of so much of them for so long.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:32 am to salty1
frick no.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:36 am to RogerTheShrubber
WWI, nothing to be ashamed of at all. In fact, I daresay the 20th century might have been better for all had they won.
WWII...yeah, not good.
WWII...yeah, not good.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:36 am to salty1
What happened is what happened. History is history. Maybe the Nazis should not be celebrated but they shouldn't be censored. On the other hand, they definitely should not be held up as heroes and deny everything bad they did like in Japan. I think people can be proud of their grandfathers in Germany if they were regular honorable soldiers serving their country. If they served in SS, maybe not though.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:38 am to salty1
I don't think they are censoring it. I was in Berlin 10 yrs ago and there were placards and signs everywhere showing the history of the war and its aftermath.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:40 am to red sox fan 13
quote:
I think people can be proud of their grandfathers in Germany if they were regular honorable soldiers serving their country.
I know my Aunt's husband is a German, and his father was a German pilot in WW2. He is very proud of his father and is the reason why he also became a pilot.
I do find it weird sometimes when he talks about his father in the war and I have to remind myself that he is talking about the other side
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:44 am to salty1
When I went to Munich for Oktoberfest they all wanted to apologize to me about it
It was weird
It was weird
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:48 am to Prominentwon
quote:
Why is it silly? Not sure why you’d want to remind your people of your country murdering 11+ million people.
Agreed. Tell that to the people in this country who remind the citizens of 13 states, regularly for over a century, that there fore-fathers held millions of humans as captives for slavery.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:48 am to salty1
If Soviet Union doesn't get shite for genociding upwards of 60 million then Germans did nothing wrong.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:50 am to Salmon
quote:
It's like slavery here in the US
quote:Are you posting from the future where we have moved on? How nice is it in 2254?
We move on.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:51 am to SaintsandTigers
quote:
Are you posting from the future where we have moved on? How nice is it in 2254?
Most people have
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:51 am to salty1
I shared a truck in China with a German couple that we hired to take us to the Wall about 20 years ago. Told about how good their army was in that war and they seemed to irritated with me. They couldn't believe it when I told them the tactics were admired and studied even today. They dismissed me.
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:54 am to salty1
quote:
My opinion, it’s silly to pretend that the war didn’t happen.
subtle "Where's my statues?" thread.....
Posted on 3/4/20 at 9:57 am to Salmon
Not really, because I doubt many Germans affiliate with the ideologies of the time. Germany was basically a different country in many ways before, during and now. So there isn't much continuity and it doesn't make sense for Germans to look back and go "our society did that."
Now, it was wrapped up in their cultures and traditions, so that'll always bring some shame.
Not to be all SJW, but I think in America it's a bit different because a lot of our founding history and southern history involves slavery. And we're not entirely discarding it, like the Germans do the Third Reich (and appropriately so, IMO). So because we're not willing to eliminate the value of those histories, we have to confront the legacy of slavery in a more active way than Germans do in casting off the holocaust. Which doesn't mean we should feel ashamed, but it is a legitimate "thing" that will continue to shape our cultures and histories for a while.
Now, it was wrapped up in their cultures and traditions, so that'll always bring some shame.
Not to be all SJW, but I think in America it's a bit different because a lot of our founding history and southern history involves slavery. And we're not entirely discarding it, like the Germans do the Third Reich (and appropriately so, IMO). So because we're not willing to eliminate the value of those histories, we have to confront the legacy of slavery in a more active way than Germans do in casting off the holocaust. Which doesn't mean we should feel ashamed, but it is a legitimate "thing" that will continue to shape our cultures and histories for a while.
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