Pettifogger

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Generally speaking, do you believe that NGRI should be a possible verdict for a criminal case?

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Missed this, but I've never given it much thought.

Generally, I don't see value in it other than perhaps not wanting the insane imprisoned with the slightly less insane. Societally, I think focusing on the edge cases in crime and punishment (especially where raw culpability isn't in dispute) is sort of the byproduct of "be nice" culture, akin to "oh no a crying child we can't enforce the borders."

If you kill three children in a fact pattern that is murder in every other possible sense, you get treated like someone who did that, period. I'm sure there are test cases someone could come up with that would give me more to think about here, but overall, no.

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lol she always makes sure to hedge with a "but men" comment.

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This is honestly the whole thing

Even the most serious women issuing serious condemnations have to hedge and caveat. I'm not sure if it's a knee-jerk accountability thing or an effort to soften going against the tribe, but every such version of this online is qualified, and it tracks what I see IRL. And to be clear, these are the reasonable people, not the crazies.

Think about how afraid and betrayed her 5 year old felt when her mom was in the process of murdering her

And then imagine how morally bankrupt you have to be to dress up in support of the murderer to go cheer/support her as she arrives to face justice

I don't mean clinically. I mean in terms of women talking to women.

Maybe therapists can't broadly say "women in this country have some serious issues they need to address from the inside" - but I'm not aware of what it would be professionally. Anyway, not really my point. My point is that we are in great need of women who shame other women into reforming their conduct.

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My point is that acting like it is made up, is harmful in itself. And if you're married and you're having kids, as a husband/boyfriend it would behoove you to understand what it looks like.

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This is true. I agree, in a vacuum, it's also a reasonable thing to say. In context in this thread, it's reasonable to say too.

But what guys see in this saga is women going "same, Lindsay, same" on social media and giving her money and blaming the husband. And then Matt Walsh does some rage baiting on PPD, and now we're flooded with all the "normal" moms/wives who were just sort of keeping quiet about the Clancy nuttery putting the PPD ignorance/trolling on the same level as the mass psychosis of the Clancy situation generally.

In short, no self policing at all. Mild chastising commentary toward the Clancy lunacy (if any), followed by all the reasonable ones grabbing their weaponry for the PPD battle.

Anyway, genuinely not pointing this at you as what you're saying is "in-line" with the conversation of the thread, but in the aggregate, it's a notable thing that's only driving this gender war moment.

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I think it’s a combo of things:

-Feminism demasculinating men
-Too high of standards from women
-many women give it away quickly with no commitment
-Divorce laws that favor women
-Husbands being an afterthought once kids come along
-easy access to porn

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Pretty good list, really. Some additional thoughts -

-Women, and the culture they influenced, asked things of men that women don't actually want. They don't want emotionally available men, they want curated men who give them just enough to feel valued without actually taking on any of man's mental/emotional burden. They don't want soft men. The very same types who were screaming about toxic masculinity are now making reels about how they don't get catcalled anymore. It's just so stupid.

- Men more or less held up their end of that. Not only did we become soft on demand (some), we did all the other objectively good stuff too. As it comes to M-F dynamics, this is probably the most restrained, self-controlled, low-toxicity (whatever that means) group of men in WORLD HISTORY. And then all the other metrics go along with it - men do more with their kids, do more around the house, so forth. If there was a contract - then as to the stuff women put into the contract overtly - men fulfilled it. I will caveat this and say men aren't leading well independently of women in many cases, and that's a genuine fault.

- Women, however, are flagrantly breaching theirs. This group of women is probably the least restrained, self-controlled, low-toxicity in WORLD HISTORY. It's an incredibly stark mismatch.

- And the governance of each is wildly different. Even in the worst parts of the purported manosphere/redpill stuff, you'll see very commonly - work out, be better for yourself, if you have kids, be a great dad, care about your mind/your body/etc. And men are self-enforcing that, harshly at times. How many of you in professional life know a ton of guys who don't exercise at all? I don't know any. That wasn't the case 15 years ago.

- Meanwhile, women just will not self-police, like at all. There is genuinely no meaningful factor in female culture saying "hey don't do OF" or "don't abort" or "don't get engrossed in true crime world, or read slutty vampire novels" or "respect your husband." You're going to get genuinely booted off the island for that stuff. This is why even conservative leaning/Christian/etc. women online are hedging on the Clancy thing.

- I'm fine acknowledging men have roles in a lot of this stuff. Someone patronizes OF. Someone approved the Gillette ad. We built the apps. We built the companies that are now HR-ified and adult daycares. Our laziness opened the door for plenty of this. The difference, of course, is that there has never been a shortage of institutional forces willing to say any of that. We've all been lectured for all of our adult lives about how bad men are.

It is crazy out there. The internet makes it seem even crazier, but this is one of those situations where the systemic issues are real and the data is piling up to support that reality.

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In today’s dating market if a man doesn’t have all 3 of these he is pretty much out of the dating market. The average woman wants absolutely NOTHING to do with the average male. Welcome to 2026. Best of luck in this market.

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I think this is overstated, although indicative of something real.

Hypergamy is real. I'm sure guys who are 5'10'' with status and/or wealth are doing fine. But generally this tracks onto the idea that a six female is matching with an eight or nine male on the apps, and so forth. And by all accounts this appears to be true (I'm not a participant, I'm interested in this stuff because I have sons).

I do think the reality is such that the average guys being left on the sideline are often back in the fold in their early 30s, having built something, improved themselves, etc. while their peer females are slowly declining as, well, assets. Suddenly they're soft landing spots, and the reality is probably that many of them will suck it up and get married to the women who blew them off 5-10 years go.

Some won't. Some will go, "hey I have money and status now, forget these women, I'm going to go after the early 20s girls now" which makes for a circular problem for the then-currently 20 something guys. It's a mess, a timing problem, an expectation problem, and everyone is probably losing in the end.

Women have fun and then scramble, with all the resulting chaos of that (fertility, most notably). Men may "get the girl" eventually but with far more baggage, a more transactional undercurrent, etc. Both missed out on the meaningful period where they suffer and build together. And then there are the broader societal problems of birth rate, narcissism/inflated valuations, men without purpose, women without restraint. A mess.

Midwest cuisine is just perfect

"our signature is taking a sandwich...and putting fries on it"

"Get this, like normal pizza but then we don't cook it"

"how do you feel about chili, except it tastes like Christmas and we put it over soggy noodles"

TBH, it's just a good place to chat with like minded women of color

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Might consider finding a different crowd.

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By all means where?

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I'd much have a career woman than one that occupies their brain with dumb shite. In my opinion, women need real things to focus their minds on other than family.

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Who do you hang out with?

The professional women I know are on tik Tok and obsessing over the child murderer girl like everyone else.