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re: Part of the new Hard Rock Hotel collapses (NOLA) 3 dead, Cranes Down-ish
Posted on 10/16/19 at 4:36 pm to civiltiger07
Posted on 10/16/19 at 4:36 pm to civiltiger07
thanks..... structural drawings general note 6 places requirement for any temporary shoreing or bracing is responsibility of erection contractor. steel fad note 18 identifies the steel structure as non-self supporting ?? requiring temporary support till structure is complete. not sure if erection contractor is same as general contractor.
0
Posted on 10/16/19 at 4:40 pm to Martini
quote:
That is already required. The Bonding company should step in and then it will mitigate to all involved GL and Builders Risk policies.
Now that will be done through all the attorneys involved and will take forever but by and large that is how it normally would work out. The City will try to recover it’s cleanup and rescue expenses as well but in the end everyone is going to lose no matter how it turns out.
The GC may or may not be bonded.
If he is no bonding company is going to ride in on a white horse to put Humpty Dumpty together.
The various insurance companies aren’t going to run to the rescue either. The GC nor the Design team is going to just accept blame.
Job 1 is to stabilize the situation and secure the site. I’m guessing the owner will have to do that but I could be wrong. It’s his property and his architect and contractor endangering the public, public property and adjacent private property.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 4:44 pm to Bazzatcha
quote:
25 x 39 slab is a hell of a 5-1/2" slab without additional framing.
They are using a metal decking to allow the slab to span that 25'. Pretty common practice.
quote:
A lot more framing on the 14th floor compared to the 9th -13th.
That would be because floors 9-13 are hotel floors and floor 14 is condos. They probably had to change up the design because of the condos being larger.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 4:54 pm to civiltiger07
quote:
They are using a metal decking to allow the slab to span that 25'. Pretty common practice.
Dude, you not gonna span 25' with metal decking without additional shoring.
Metal Deck span lenght chart
Additionally, after the shoring is removed when the concrete is cured, that slab will deflect like a mofo, any weight will bring it down.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 4:56 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:\
Have we established that the slab works? From what I recall youre looking at 25' spans with 5.5" slab at f'c=4ksi...
Without doing the math I dont think this works on paper.
It doesn't... particularly if they used the smooth form deck instead of the LVI (composite) deck shown on those permit drawings.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 4:57 pm to Bazzatcha
East crane leaning is noticeably more than it was monday at this time.
Boom seems to pointed the same direction it has been since Saturday.
Boom seems to pointed the same direction it has been since Saturday.
This post was edited on 10/16/19 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 10/16/19 at 4:58 pm to BoostAddict
quote:
Have we established that the slab works? From what I recall youre looking at 25' spans with 5.5" slab at f'c=4ksi...
Without doing the math I dont think this works on paper.
\
Especially with only WWF as reinforcement.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:03 pm to junkfunky
quote:
The 18th floor framing sizes are all placeholders.
W10x19 carrying 3" composite deck for 26 tributary feet?
Disgusting.
Exactly. If they built it using those members and deck...ouch.
I can't tell you how many times contractors use drawings for construction that clearly say PRELIMINARY - NOT FOR CONSTRUCTION.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:10 pm to BoostAddict
quote:
PRELIMINARY - NOT FOR CONSTRUCTION.
I can't agree more.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:11 pm to Swagga
So what? It's a goddamn sports forum. This is entertainment.
The entire forum is built upon Monday morning quarterbacking.
Yet every fifth post or so is like yours.
The entire forum is built upon Monday morning quarterbacking.
Yet every fifth post or so is like yours.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:13 pm to Napoleon
I don’t give a damn if you Monday morning quarterback or not, I gave my opinion on it. Some of you are completely over reacting.
This is a forum, I thought I was allowed to give my thoughts on it.
This is a forum, I thought I was allowed to give my thoughts on it.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:16 pm to BoostAddict
quote:
Exactly. If they built it using those members and deck...ouch.
There would have been steel shop drawings also reviewed by both citadel and the SE. it’s not like they built this thing to where it’s at based on schematic design phase drawings....
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:18 pm to fightin tigers
I have to laugh at all the people (in this thread and elsewhere) complaining about speculation and armchair QBs.
"I spent 54 years reviewing drawings for Mr. Jody at K-Rex Shoring and that's just 100% normal engineering."
Biatch, the damn thing fell down. Save your protest about "muh expertise" for one that stayed up. In this particular case, some of those armchair QBs are probably 100% right.
The hispanic dude who made that movie? Probably onto something. The dude's kid who said the building was bulging? Don't think he made that one up, champ.
I swear, if someone with a fancy job title or degree said the collapse was caused by gnomes and trolls half of y'all would believe it.
"I spent 54 years reviewing drawings for Mr. Jody at K-Rex Shoring and that's just 100% normal engineering."
Biatch, the damn thing fell down. Save your protest about "muh expertise" for one that stayed up. In this particular case, some of those armchair QBs are probably 100% right.
The hispanic dude who made that movie? Probably onto something. The dude's kid who said the building was bulging? Don't think he made that one up, champ.
I swear, if someone with a fancy job title or degree said the collapse was caused by gnomes and trolls half of y'all would believe it.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:19 pm to Bazzatcha
quote:
Dude, you not gonna span 25' with metal decking without additional shoring.
You are correct. IF they used the deck you linked to. The drawings call out a deck that is rated to span 25’.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:24 pm to USMEagles
quote:
I swear, if someone with a fancy job title or degree said the collapse was caused by gnomes and trolls half of y'all would believe it.
And we'd still ignore your troll arse.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:26 pm to USMEagles
quote:
Biatch, the damn thing fell down. Save your protest about "muh expertise" for one that stayed up. In this particular case, some of those armchair QBs are probably 100% right.
structures can fail due to poor design, poor execution, catastrophic injury or some/all of the above.
since we are speaking in certitude, your 100% chance is likely 0% accurate
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:29 pm to TigerstuckinMS
quote:
And we'd still ignore your troll arse.
He's not a troll. Just a dumbass.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:31 pm to doubleb
quote:
The GC may or may not be bonded.
If he is no bonding company is going to ride in on a white horse to put Humpty Dumpty together.
The various insurance companies aren’t going to run to the rescue either. The GC nor the Design team is going to just accept blame.
It’s an $85 million project and I’m guessing they aren’t doing it out of their hip pocket so if any lender is involved 99% they have made them provide a surety bond. Unless they have Jimmy Hoffa holding the note. And the Surety will come in and act as the GC including demolition. Then it will bring in all the appropriate insurance holders and all of this will be directed by each insurance company’s attorneys. And by each I mean all those involved from the engineers, architects, contractors and I’m sure the concrete, steel fabricator, steel erector as well as quite a few more will be in the middle of it. A wide net will be cast and a lot of law firms will be billing some hours.
The cleanup and stabilization will get done and they will argue about it later. This isn’t about accepting blame at this point. Nobody is talking about rebuilding.
And everyone owed money at this point from sub contractors to suppliers will just hope they have the cash flow to move on because they won’t see a dime for a long time if ever.
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:33 pm to LSUFanHouston
As for wicked, it’s shut down too. Can’t get all its equipment out the saenger Unless it can get an identical set to replace its out of business too
Posted on 10/16/19 at 5:53 pm to junkfunky
quote:
Heard indirectly from a (not sure if they have anything to do with this project) steel supplier that this was a new system they were trying that would have the metal stud walls be load-bearing to cut the spans in half (or so) because they stack. Even if that was the plan there are still some spans approaching 20' being supported by the W10s (noodles) but where the hell is all of the shoring required on either side of where the stud walls are going to be installed?
If true this has to be the most stupid design ever.
Hold the building up with shores until you infill the metal stud walls that are load bearing?
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