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re: If there is no heaven or hell, does the purpose & meaning of your life change?
Posted on 7/31/26 at 1:32 pm to Cockopotamus
Posted on 7/31/26 at 1:32 pm to Cockopotamus
quote:
It’s ironic and sad that you accuse others of being indoctrinated while spewing secular humanist garbage throughout this thread.
I can't speak for any other atheist, because I'm not a member of any atheist organization, nor do I consume any of their literature.
I came about my atheism simply by reading the Bible and being a member of various churches. I was once a member of a church council.
I became an atheist around the age of 8 but tried my best to become a believer. It just never took.
So, I was not indoctrinated by anyone. I'm self-taught via self-study and observation.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 1:35 pm to Stinger_1066
quote:Jesus says in Luke chapter 16 in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man that the rich man spends eternity in flames.
By the way, many Christians that I know don't believe in burning lakes of fire, either. It is a metaphor, not to be taken literally. It is used to scare children.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 1:37 pm to WestBay
quote:I don’t understand why believers so often portray a lack of faith as “pretending to have it all figured out,” except as a way to dismiss opposing views without seriously considering them. Those are not the only two options. You do not have to claim absolute certainty that God exists or absolute certainty that no god could exist.
They're worshipping the feeling and persona they get from pretending to have it all figured out.
It is perfectly reasonable to admit that some questions may be beyond our ability to answer. In fact, “I don’t know” is probably the most rational position anyone can take on the existence of a creator.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 1:43 pm to Stinger_1066
quote:
I was not indoctrinated by anyone
quote:
I became an atheist around the age of 8
quote:
I came about my atheism simply by reading the Bible and being a member of various churches
Sure.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 1:45 pm to Knuckle Checker
quote:I assume you’re trotting out the old “there are no ethics or morals without God” argument.
What is good and how do we determine what is good? In other words, is there a universal good?
Human societies develop moral norms because cooperation is necessary for social life. Empathy, reciprocity, concern for children, punishment of cheaters, and prohibitions against needless violence all help communities survive and function. Religion can codify those instincts, but it did not create them.
We see primitive versions of the same behavior in other social animals. Human ethics are more sophisticated because we can reason, debate consequences, extend empathy beyond our immediate group, and revise harmful traditions. You can argue over whether a universal good exists, but it plainly does not follow that morality comes from Christianity. Human beings had moral systems long before Christianity, and thousands of non-Christian societies have developed them independently.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 2:10 pm to MWP
quote:Do you really believe you can “hedge your bets” against an all-knowing creator? If God knows your thoughts and motives, then he would know whether your faith was genuine or merely a calculated attempt to avoid punishment. You cannot sincerely choose to believe something because the potential consequences frighten you. And Christianity requires actual belief, not strategic compliance. An omniscient God could not be deceived by someone going through the motions for personal gain.
Never really can understand the thought process of a non-beliver.
So, the thought of living in a burning lake of fire being tormented forever is not terrifying? You could go one trillion years and still not be any closer to not being in antogonizing misery.
I think following Christ and hedging my bets on living in paradise forever is a better option and if I die and neither happens, then at least I died living like you, loving my neighbor as enjoyment and being a good person.
Yours is an argument for fear-based pretending, which would be useless against the very God you claim to believe in.
And if your response is that your faith is genuine, then you are not “hedging” at all, and I am at a loss as to what point you intended to make in your post.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 2:28 pm to GreenRockTiger
quote:
Jesus says in Luke chapter 16 in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man that the rich man spends eternity in flames.
Luke 16 also says that the rich man was able to speak with Abraham even while he was in the fire. Abraham was "far away" in an unspecified place where angels had transported Lazarus to.
A man burning in fire was able to speak to someone else "far away".
That makes perfect sense, right?
Posted on 7/31/26 at 2:50 pm to Cockopotamus
quote:
Sure.
Why is that so hard to believe?
My parents were not religious. We didn't attend church when I was a kid.
The closest I came was going to "vacation Bible school" during the summers.
I read the Bible at a young age out of simple curiosity, and I started making mental notes of things that didn't make sense.
For the vast majority of people, their religious views are based on the religious views of their parents and the place where they are born.
If you were born in Saudi Arabia, there is a 99% probability that you would now be Muslim.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 3:13 pm to Stinger_1066
quote:
Why is that so hard to believe?
You claimed you weren’t indoctrinated but then stated that you became an atheist at 8 years old
quote:
I read the Bible at a young age out of simple curiosity, and I started making mental notes of things that didn't make sense.
1. You didn’t have the capacity to understand at 8
2. You can’t just read the Bible and throw the entire thing out because things don’t make sense to you.
Of course there are things that don’t make sense to you. It was written for an audience steeped in a vastly different culture 2,000 years ago.
This is why you need study bibles, commentaries, sermons, etc. to explain what the original intent was, how it would have been perceived, and how the underlying message still applies today.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 3:39 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
False
How will a dead atheist ever know that she was right about nothing beyond the grave? Her consciousness is gone at the moment of death.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 3:56 pm to Everyday Is Saturday
You’re argument is invalid because light came into the world but the world preferred darkness.
Lost humans will always reject their God because like the first humans they want to be the highest authority. i.e. God.
Lost humans will always reject their God because like the first humans they want to be the highest authority. i.e. God.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 4:27 pm to Everyday Is Saturday
quote:Sorry I'm late, but holy strawman!
Christopher Hitchens provides a point of view. Thoughts?
Posted on 7/31/26 at 4:39 pm to weagle1999
quote:
How will a dead atheist ever know that she was right about nothing beyond the grave? Her consciousness is gone at the moment of death.
Because atheists are wrong.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 4:56 pm to Cockopotamus
quote:
Because God created men and women to fulfill specific roles, and headship was given to men.
According to an ancient book written by men who claimed it was the word of God?
Posted on 7/31/26 at 5:26 pm to GreenRockTiger
The problem with that is the ancient Hebrews had no belief of hell that it existed.
Some didn't believe in the afterlife.
Some didn't believe in the afterlife.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 5:31 pm to jasonbr1975
quote:
Many Christians/Catholics struggle with belief and faith, but at the end of the day, even if it not real, I'd rather live my life according to Jesus' teachings and upholding those good morals, values, and virtues.
Without this, there is no moral backstop.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 5:49 pm to Gus007
quote:
I sincerely believe Christ was the way to a better life on earth.
Christ is the way to eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven. He isn’t the way to a “better life on earth.” If we are to follow Him, he warned us that our lives wouldn’t become easier at all.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 6:08 pm to Willie Stroker
quote:
According to an ancient book written by men who claimed it was the word of God?
Blindness to the human context in “the word” fascinates me. That God would allow it in the first place. That deeply faithful people do not recognize it.
Millions of Jews and others think the Jews are God’s chosen people because Isaiah, a Jew, wrote that. No bias to see here.
Posted on 7/31/26 at 6:43 pm to Everyday Is Saturday
I know this will be too long for most but I listened to this sermon by Timothy Keller earlier today and thought it should be posted here for those who want to listen.
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