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Started By
Message
re: Death by cop - Ryan Whitaker, PHX PD
Posted on 8/9/20 at 8:46 am to LSUAngelHere1
Posted on 8/9/20 at 8:46 am to LSUAngelHere1
I did not know that
0
Posted on 8/9/20 at 8:47 am to The Third Leg
quote:Same can be said for the opposite. There are 350 million people in this country. There are millions of interactions with cops annually. It adds up to very few people shot or killed statistically.
There are 700k cops. Each of those cops has dozens of interactions daily. Millions upon millions of them happen annually, and in all of those situations, it adds up to 44 police officers being shot and killed. Not exactly much more than a few, statistically speaking.
Also, not really part of our discussion... but a good percentage of cops never have any interactions with the public. Many are assigned to crime scenes, investigations, clerical/admin.
Posted on 8/9/20 at 8:48 am to red sox fan 13
quote:
Would you not have gun if you got a knock after 10 PM?
Would you open the door after 10 pm if you thought whoever was knocking outside was such a threat that you needed to open the door with a gun in your hand?
Sad story either way though.
Posted on 8/9/20 at 8:49 am to ell_13
quote:
Same can be said for the opposite. There are 350 million people in this country. There are millions of interactions with cops annually. It adds up to very few people shot or killed statistically.
Which is absolutely true as well.
Posted on 8/9/20 at 9:42 am to Corso
quote:
It's a very small percentage of cops who are there for the right reasons. Most are white trash that either want to act tough or are too stupid to do anything else
What about the black cops?
Posted on 8/9/20 at 10:09 am to Obtuse1
quote:
When a cop gets to fire at someone just because they have a gun in their hand then there really isn't a right to bear arms anymore.
Well said. The only thing I’d add.. it’s even worse when a cop gets to fire at someone just because they have a gun in their hand inside their own home. If the second amendment doesn’t extend to your own living room, where the frick is it valid?
Posted on 8/9/20 at 10:47 am to supatigah
My guess on this scenario is this:
1. The deceased is obviously the type of guy that answers his door with a gun ready to make threats or deal with conflict (not a criticism of him - I don’t know how dangerous his neighborhood is)
2. The neighbor that called 911 is not a “friend to him” and may have been afraid to confront him because of point #1 - so they chose to lie to the dispatcher.
3. The cop that knocked and shined the light in his face did nothing wrong and should not face any charges or disciplinary actions.
4. The cop that shot him is not qualified to be a police officer or ever have a gun permit. I will leave to to lawyers to make a decision on charging him with a crime.
It’s just a bad sequence of events - poor neighbor reactions - weapon drawn by citizen - scared/impulsive cop that shoots for no reason at all.
1. The deceased is obviously the type of guy that answers his door with a gun ready to make threats or deal with conflict (not a criticism of him - I don’t know how dangerous his neighborhood is)
2. The neighbor that called 911 is not a “friend to him” and may have been afraid to confront him because of point #1 - so they chose to lie to the dispatcher.
3. The cop that knocked and shined the light in his face did nothing wrong and should not face any charges or disciplinary actions.
4. The cop that shot him is not qualified to be a police officer or ever have a gun permit. I will leave to to lawyers to make a decision on charging him with a crime.
It’s just a bad sequence of events - poor neighbor reactions - weapon drawn by citizen - scared/impulsive cop that shoots for no reason at all.
Posted on 8/9/20 at 10:48 am to ell_13
quote:
And even if you include all people killed by cops, it’s still a lower death rate than cops who are killed. Meaning 48 out of 700k is still a higher rate than the reverse: cops killing others.
I’m not sure how you came to this conclusion, unless you’re using the entire US population to define “death rate,” which would be silly considering the vast majority have very little interaction with police.
In 2019, 44 police officers were shot and killed in the line of duty. The same year, 999 civilians were shot and killed by police officers. That means that each police encounter was roughly 20x more likely to result in the shooting death of a civilian than a police officer.
Now, there’s a legitimate argument to be made around what that number should be. I think pretty much all reasonable folks would say that the police killing a criminal is preferable to a criminal killing the police. But the more police err on the side of caution - i.e. lethal force - the more instances you will have of civilians being killed when they would not have actually harmed/killed the officer.
The difficult question becomes how much leeway should we give police? Or to put it another way - how many “unnecessary” civilian deaths are worth it to protect one officer’s life? But you have to be honest about the data first.
Posted on 8/9/20 at 11:18 am to baldona
quote:
You guys are doing yourself a disservice by acting like it’s okay to answer a door armed.
Is this a crime in any way? Let alone one that deserves the death penalty handed out with no benefit of a judge and jury?
Posted on 8/9/20 at 11:20 am to munchman
quote:
I stand by my comment Darwinism.
Noted, and I stand by mine that you are a dumb shite.
Posted on 8/9/20 at 11:23 am to tigerinthebueche
quote:
Like opening the door with gun in hand when there are cops on the other side.
Maybe he had batshit crazy neighbors.. in fact, he did.
You have no back history on the guy or the neighborhood to judge him, but I can say the cop fricked up badly just from watching the video.
Posted on 8/9/20 at 11:26 am to lostinbr
(no message)
This post was edited on 10/9/20 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 8/9/20 at 1:28 pm to Ricardo
shite is ridiculous. You can clearly see him with his hands out at one point and then boom.
Posted on 8/9/20 at 1:47 pm to supatigah
It ain't about the training it's about these idiots not being able to assess the situation under pressure. They panic and as soon as they see any kind of object in the guys hand they automatically shoot. Then they automatically play the I feared for my life card. No, you couldn't perform under pressure and murdered the guy. They don't have the mental capacity to do these jobs.
This post was edited on 8/9/20 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 8/9/20 at 2:16 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You have no back history on the guy or the neighborhood to judge him, but I can say the cop fricked up badly just from watching the video.
Neither do you. I made no comment about him or anything about him other than he was stupid to open the door- gun in hand- with two cops on the other side. Cops who did, in fact, identify themselves.
Likewise, you don’t know shite about the backstory- his neighbors, the complex, the officers involved, any participants criminal or mental history. But you have no problem saying the cop screwed up. Fair enough. Funny you feel it’s OK to judge the cops- knowing nothing about anyone’s backstory-but fault me for judging Whitaker. I think Whitaker fricked up. He’s dead.
My point is valid.
Posted on 8/9/20 at 2:37 pm to tigerinthebueche
quote:
Sounded like they identified themselves pretty clearly to me.
You have to engage your brain.
It was 10pm. The single slightly above conversation level announcement with the knock is not going to alert the majority of people who are in their homes at that time of day. They will probably be in another room, have TV or music on, taking a shower etc. Especially at that time of day that feeble announcement would likely work only if someone was already at or very close to the door.
If cops are going to do everything they can to avoid clear identification from someone inside their domicile they have to do more than just a cursory announcement with the initial knock at a time when people may be in bed. While not as bad as the Greenville SC cop that shot the guy INSIDE his home through the window this is still a horrible example of policing.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 12:54 am to Obtuse1
fricking shooter cop needs to go to prison and get railed nightly by 6'9", 290# Marquerious.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 5:43 am to Obtuse1
quote:
t was 10pm. The single slightly above conversation level announcement with the knock is not going to alert the majority of people who are in their homes at that time of day. They will probably be in another room, have TV or music on, taking a shower etc. Especially at that time of day that feeble announcement would likely work only if someone was already at or very close to the door.
Now try engaging your brain, objectively. It’s late at night and- if we accept your scenario- he opened the door without knowing who or what was on the other side ?
Would you? Would you open your door at any time of the day without knowing who is knocking? Or would you look to see what/who it is? And if you were still unsure, wouldn’t you ask?
I only heard the cops ID themselves once. Clearly enough to understand. If Whitaker didn’t know they were cops, why didn’t he ask who they were? Therefore We can assume he knew and opened the door armed. Sounds like a great way to escalate.
For the third time, I’m not finding the cops blameless. Simply pointing out that Whitaker put himself in a position to get shot.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 7:15 am to tigerinthebueche
quote:
Therefore We can assume he knew and opened the door armed
That is a big leap. It looks clear to me he did not realize they were cops and you can see the look on his face change as soon as he does realize who they are. He immediately points the gun as far away from them as possible and begins going down to his knees to surrender.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 8:56 am to September 1948
quote:
Is there something in the water in Phoenix/Mesa? Mesa was where Dan Shaver was killed by a cop in a motel there in 2016.
Yes there is
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