re: Americans think they need to earn $233,000 to live comfortably, and $483,000 to be rich

Another funny observation in all of these threads is that people always include "cell phone" as if that is some big line item that really weighs down a budget.

If you finance an iphone at 0% that's like 15 bucks a month and then a phone plan is like 100-150 a month.

It's not nothing but I find it funny it's frequently mentioned along side mortgage, health insurance and car payments, as if it's in that realm of expense.

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Noone pays 50% effective tax rates outside of high earners in CA or NYC.

Fix your withholding.

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Well 20% to the Feds, plus 6% to the State, plus 8-10% when you buy something (with your money that has ALREADY been taxed), plus X% on your property (bought with money that has ALREADY been taxed), plus X% on your capital gains, plus X% on your inheritance, etc, etc, etc. When you add it all up the average dollar you make is taxed into oblivion.

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The average American feels they need to rake in $233,000 annually to live in financial comfort, according to a new survey by YouGov for Bankrate that polled over 2,500 people. That’s 310% more than the 2021 paycheck for the average full-time worker—$75,203, per the Census Bureau.And they think they need to earn twice that to feel wealthy—$483,000.

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You can live comfortably in most of the US with $233,000. As in two cars and a decent house in a safer neighborhood.

But $483,000 in W2 income won’t feel rich. It will feel very taxed.

Economic thermostats change throughout life.

And we really should be talking take home pay. The gov takes a good chunk.

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Well 20% to the Feds, plus 6% to the State, plus 8-10% when you buy something (with your money that has ALREADY been taxed), plus X% on your property (bought with money that has ALREADY been taxed), plus X% on your capital gains, plus X% on your inheritance, etc, etc, etc. When you add it all up the average dollar you make is taxed into oblivion.

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INCOME RANGE (AGI)

AVERAGE TAX LIABILITY

EFFECTIVE TAX RATE (% OF AGI)

$1 to $25,000

$208

1.7%

$25,000 to $50,000

$1,871

5.2%

$50,000 to $100,000

$6,251

8.7%

$100,000 to $200,000

$16,977

12.6%

$200,000 to $500,000

$55,536

19.5%

$500,000 to $1 million

$173,678

25.8%

$1 million to $10 million

$632,146

29%

$10 million and above

$7,884,775

26.1%

Overall average

$9,118

13.9%

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In all, our $1.355 trillion U.S. federal income tax total was paid by 96.5 million taxpayers. Excluding the returns that didn't result in any tax being owed, the average tax paid in 2014 was $14,040. As you can see from the chart above, the overwhelming majority of returns with no income tax liability are in the lower income brackets, as you may expect. All but a small minority of taxpayers with AGI above $75,000 pay federal income taxes. Now, that's not to say that other folks don't pay taxes -- they do. Sales tax, property tax, and a number of other taxes and fees apply to most people.

The average tax return shows adjusted gross income of $65,751, and the average taxable return has AGI of $94,284. This makes the overall effective federal tax rate 13.9%, and translates to a rate of 14.9% among those who paid taxes

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The Motley Fool

Try again, very few and very high earners are the only ones getting close to a 50% effective tax rate.

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Another funny observation in all of these threads is that people always include "cell phone" as if that is some big line item that really weighs down a budget.

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And the corollary to this is that whenever someone gets into debt or struggles to manage their finances, the recommendation is always to get a cheaper cell phone, ditch netflix or find some 80 year old barber to cut their hair for less.

As if these little sacrifices are going to put a dent in the prison of penury they have constructed.

You want to claw yourself out of a financial hole? Move back in with mom and dad instead of paying $1000/month on rent. Drive a beat up Corolla instead of making $600 car payments. And most importantly, find a way to make more money.

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BS you could have an older car with no payment, screw travel ball, and cut out summer camp.

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I love when people say this.

the car, sure, that's a personal choice. same with the house.
You can bash travel ball all you want, and i can't stand it either, but it's necessary if your kid is any good at baseball and wants to play against any kind of competition. playing other sports at a high level is just as expensive, it's not just baseball, and unfortunately that's just the way it is in most areas, and i can't stand it.
what kid doesnt' want to go to summer camp? I'm not going to sacrifice my kids experiences. I'll sacrifice things myself.
I'm on this earth for a short time, and i'm goign to go on vacations. and when i say vacations, i dont' mean the beach and disneyworld.

I've almost got our two cars paid off and that will be a nice relief, but making $233k and having kids that go to private school (and don't fricking tell me to send them to public schools in the south), and play sports, that money doesn't go as far as most would like, although if you're saving and investing, you can't complain too much. I might not have as much money as i'd like at the moment, but at least i know i'll have more than enough once my kids are out of the house and i get closer to retirement b/c of what i put on the side right now.

It's always something every month were i have to drop a few hundred unexpected dollars. Need new tires on the car, dog does something fricking stupid and has to go to the vet after hours, fridge goes out, modem/router dies, some jackass hits your parked truck and busts your headlight and you have to pay for it since there were no cameras to catch it, etc.

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Average home price is $350k. A mortgage at current rates will run you about 3400/month. Car notes average $750/ month at current prices

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None of this is even remotely accurate.

$350k mortgage even with only 5% down, even on a 15 year and paying PMI, will be around $3k. If you go with a 30 yr like most that drops to under $2500/month and if you actually put 20% down it's under $2k.

The numbers people make up to make their sky is falling scenarios work is ridiculous.

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It still blows my mind that people in this thread are claiming ~10k per month in spending is “just enough” for a comfortable middle class lifestyle. Delusional.

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That’s what I was thinking reading this

The same people say “Dave Ramsey is a dumbass” and “only idiots need his method”

Comfort can mean building wealth, not just getting by. The American dream is being able to work at what you are good at, live comfortably, AND build wealth. The tax code as it's written makes it difficult to do.

I'm self employed, own a business. Some years I make OK, occasionally it's a windfall year. The top of that is taxed at 35-37%. That's confiscatory, No one should have to give 35-37% of what they earn to the government. I don't care if it's billionaires.