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Started By
Message
re: 55 year old lifeguard charged with murder after shooting 2 teens in Chicago
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:22 pm to gumbo2176
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:22 pm to gumbo2176
quote:
He was way too aggressive over what looked like nothing
Agreed that he was too aggressive but I wouldn’t say a group of teens walking up to you and making physical contact is nothing.
Unlikely it goes great for him but I don’t know Illinois affirmative defense law or context here well
Feeling surrounded and being physically confronted could get him home but it won’t be anything fun
1
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:23 pm to NoSaint
quote:
but I don’t know Illinois affirmative defense law o
They apparently do not have stand your ground.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:27 pm to L.A.
The one that didn’t get shot did come in pointing something.
Might have just been his finger.
Might have just been his finger.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:28 pm to L.A.
No Kangz! Am I right?
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:29 pm to TigerBalsagna
quote:
I didnt see the attack.
The young urban guy just wanted a hug, right?
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:31 pm to dgnx6
quote:
The one that didn’t get shot did come in pointing something.
Might have just been his finger.
Something that appears black and about the size of a small pistol falls out of his hand after he drops the back and lands on/adjacent to the bag. Be interesting to see what that was.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:33 pm to L.A.
That's murder
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:35 pm to L.A.
One of two possibilities.
Either they had threatened him earlier so he was prepared and on edge...
...or he had been waiting for this moment all his life.
Either way it doesn't matter. He's in Chicago and will go to jail for the rest of his life.
Either they had threatened him earlier so he was prepared and on edge...
...or he had been waiting for this moment all his life.
Either way it doesn't matter. He's in Chicago and will go to jail for the rest of his life.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:36 pm to gumbo2176
quote:
That shite might work in Mississippi in the 1950's with an all white jury, but my guess is, this guys fooked.
So are you just assuming the white guy was looking for a reason to hunt blacks?
It’s amazing what people attempt to equate to the days of segregation and even to slavery these days.
The guy can be in wrong without needing to bring up the days of segregation, the KKK, and Mississippi Burning.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:39 pm to L.A.
quote:
families call for hate crime charges’
Murder is murder. F the hate crime shite.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
They apparently do not have stand your ground.
Neither does New York, and yet Bernhard Goetz was still acquitted. The traditional common law concept of self defense is more than sufficient to justify this conduct, especially given the context that we’ve since learned about. If you defend yourself from an initial attack, and the attacker comes back for round 2 with his posse, then you’re arguably justified at that point in using deadly force to defend yourself.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:42 pm to Riverside
quote:
Neither does New York, and yet Bernhard Goetz was still acquitted.
Well there are a few crucial differences.
quote:
The traditional common law concept of self defense is more than sufficient to justify this conduct
To use deadly force? Proportionality is a major variable.
This is one crucial difference in the Goetz scenario and this one. Basic force, which does not exist in the contemporary example.
quote:
If you defend yourself from an initial attack, and the attacker comes back for round 2 with his posse,
There was no "initial attack" let alone a "round 2".
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:47 pm to SlowFlowPro
Not really. Goetz was not physically attacked so you’re wrong on the facts. He had previously been a victim on the subway in a prior attack but the youths he shot had not actually attacked him before he shot them.
Also, at that time, NY law made it illegal to carry a handgun. I’m not sure any such law is in place in Chicago.
Also, at that time, NY law made it illegal to carry a handgun. I’m not sure any such law is in place in Chicago.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
There was no "initial attack" let alone a "round 2".
The news report states otherwise.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:50 pm to Riverside
quote:
Goetz was not physically attacked
It was an attempted robbery, correct? That involves force.
If it didn't involve force, it would be theft (like the contemporary example)
There was no force, let alone proportionate force, in the incident on video.
Hell, one of the kids is 10 feet away and never even approaches him (or even looks at him IIRC)
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:52 pm to Riverside
quote:
The news report states otherwise.
CBS
quote:
In a proffer, Assistant Cook County State's Attorney Danny Hanichak said the swimming pool at Douglass Park, at 1401 S. Sacramento Blvd. in the North Lawndale neighborhood, closed a 7 p.m. Thursday. Prior to the pool closing, some people had taken Leto's bike from where it had been parked in the pool area and had left it up some nearby stairs, prosecutors said.
There was no evidence that the people who moved the bike were the teen victims in the case, prosecutors said.
Leto got his bike after the pool closed, and got into a quarrel with a 15-year-old boy about the bike, prosecutors said. This quarrel lasted only about 30 to 45 seconds and was not physical, prosecutors said.
quote:
After the quarrel, Leto walked his bike up the sidewalk, prosecutors said. He went on to stop and flip the bike upside-down, took off his backpack, knelt down, and began rummaging through the backpack, prosecutors said. While looking through the backpack, Leto looked at the 15-year-old boy with whom he'd had the quarrel, along with the two boys identified as Marjay and Jeremy — who were all walking down the same sidewalk, prosecutors said.
Numerous witnesses were interviewed, and none said the three teenage boys threatened Leto, prosecutors said. Witnesses also said none of the three teenage boys had a weapon, prosecutors said.
The three victims walked closer to Leto, prosecutors said. The teen from the earlier quarrel — identified only as "Victim 3" by prosecutors — was walking behind Marjay and Jeremy, prosecutors said. All three victims walked into the grassy area off the sidewalk, prosecutors said.
Marjay walked past the Leto along the sidewalk, while Victim 3, still on the grassy area, reached toward Leto's bike, prosecutors said. At that point, Leto stood up and aimed a gun at Marjay, who was turning away from Leto at the time, prosecutors said.
No attacks. One theft and one attempted theft.
As the story notes, the initial incident/argument "was not physical"
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:54 pm to SlowFlowPro
SFP has weighed. Its gonna be the opposite of that.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:55 pm to AtticusOSullivan
quote:
SFP has weighed. Its gonna be the opposite of that.
So silly
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Ingles said that before the shooting a group of 10 teenagers approached Leto and “threatened him” when he was leaving the pool. She said one of them grabbed his bike and ran with it before dropping it.
From the Chicago Sun Times. This all allegedly occurred before the shooting.
Posted on 6/29/25 at 8:56 pm to Riverside
So not an attack
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