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Message
re: WOJ: hart re-signing
Posted on 8/16/21 at 9:48 pm to irvchilichill1
Posted on 8/16/21 at 9:48 pm to irvchilichill1
So what are you going to do when you wake up tomorrow, and the next day, and a month from now, and Hart is still on this team?
Way too many of you are living in the fantasies in your head and projecting out the reality you want to be true instead of accepting the one that is in actuality.
If a sign and trade was coming it would have already happened. Hart will be here through December and almost certainly to the trade deadline. If he is ever moved it will be for a larger piece.
People are getting too much into the rose colored offseason and forgetting that if you put Hart in that summer league he would be dominating. Hart will be our 6th or 7th man at worse, and it would not shock me if his jumper looks smoother thanks to an offseason with Vinson, that Hart may in fact be starting to balance the offense with defense.
Way too many of you are living in the fantasies in your head and projecting out the reality you want to be true instead of accepting the one that is in actuality.
If a sign and trade was coming it would have already happened. Hart will be here through December and almost certainly to the trade deadline. If he is ever moved it will be for a larger piece.
People are getting too much into the rose colored offseason and forgetting that if you put Hart in that summer league he would be dominating. Hart will be our 6th or 7th man at worse, and it would not shock me if his jumper looks smoother thanks to an offseason with Vinson, that Hart may in fact be starting to balance the offense with defense.
1
Posted on 8/16/21 at 9:52 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
How do you know that wasnt after everything pretty much dried up.
Griff probably then told him we have this extra money let's do something.
You don’t hand out 3 year contracts just b/c you have some extra money. 3 year contracts, especially after a rookie contract means we like you and believe in you.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 10:03 pm to Bronc
What am I going to do? Thats easy. Root for him to succeed on this team like all the rest of them.
Im not hating on the man. Far from. Im only giving a plausible rhyme and reason as to what I see as a clear overpay, when it didnt seem like you had to nor seeminglt need him bc of the draft and bringing Didi over.
On its face, it doesnt make sense in a neat fashion, but as I stated above already, if its bc of a sign and trade in the works, then it makes perfect sense and thats what I believe should happen. Hart is trade bait from here on out. His value is the highest it will be right now. Once the season starts and it becomes clear Trey, Herb, Didi, are more than adequate replacements, Hart loses trade value bc teams know we have to move him and his stats production has likely suffered bc he is losing time to others who are performing.
Its the same thing with Hield. Hence, why it is a good trade for both teams. Re-allocation of talent, finances and overall fit to positions of need and team chemistry.
Im not hating on the man. Far from. Im only giving a plausible rhyme and reason as to what I see as a clear overpay, when it didnt seem like you had to nor seeminglt need him bc of the draft and bringing Didi over.
On its face, it doesnt make sense in a neat fashion, but as I stated above already, if its bc of a sign and trade in the works, then it makes perfect sense and thats what I believe should happen. Hart is trade bait from here on out. His value is the highest it will be right now. Once the season starts and it becomes clear Trey, Herb, Didi, are more than adequate replacements, Hart loses trade value bc teams know we have to move him and his stats production has likely suffered bc he is losing time to others who are performing.
Its the same thing with Hield. Hence, why it is a good trade for both teams. Re-allocation of talent, finances and overall fit to positions of need and team chemistry.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 10:06 pm to irvchilichill1
quote:
You don’t hand out 3 year contracts just b/c you have some extra money. 3 year contracts, especially after a rookie contract means we like you and believe in you.
Or you give the extra bag to avoid a Bogdanovic debacle and lose him for nothing or worse get penalized for trying to be underhanded.
Posted on 8/16/21 at 10:08 pm to irvchilichill1
Hart has a little leverage bc his agent should know that he may be the difference to fighting for playoffs again or getting a player that makes us think we can reasonably contend for a Conf. Finals appearance THIS YEAR
Posted on 8/17/21 at 7:34 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:At that point, I would obviously have no issue with the deal, and would think it was actually a value. But, he was atrocious on catch and shoot 3's last season, 32.4% on 3.8 attempts.
and what happens if Hart improves his 3 point shot and starts knocking down open catch and shoot 3's at a near 40% rate?
Posted on 8/18/21 at 11:08 am to cgrand
Listening to the "In the NO" podcast this am with Mason and Shamit and Mason is saying that he can't get into details but Harts deal is basically a lot like the Darius Miller contract in that its basically a walking trade exception and most of the money is non guaranteed. Kinda puts a completely different spin on this deal if true. Pay Hart almost double what the qualifying offer would have been to get him to agree to a 1 year deal that we can trade.
Posted on 8/18/21 at 11:21 am to cajun_tiger
quote:
Pay Hart almost double what the qualifying offer would have been to get him to agree to a 1 year deal that we can trade.
I've seen a few people float this.. Give Hart $10-12 million with the understanding that he won't cause a big problem when we trade him wherever we find the best deal
Posted on 8/18/21 at 11:32 am to cajun_tiger
Hart is an odd situation to me. He is one of our top 5 players (my favorite Pelican,). He was top 5 in mpg last year.
Last year we tried to give him to SG spot. It is honestly wide open this year. By all rights, that should be his spot. He is a top 5 highest paid guy on the team. But he didn't seize it last year. He is only projected to play there in spots this season. So where does he fit?
If he is just the backup SG. I don't like the signing. Back up SF? We have Marshall for that. Back up PF? We have a need and I think he might be OK there. But that is a ton of money for a back up. Especially one that will be hard pressed to be in the top 10 for 6th man of the year (not an elite enough scorer or defender).
I'm glad he is staying. I just wish I knew where he is going to fit in with this team..
Last year we tried to give him to SG spot. It is honestly wide open this year. By all rights, that should be his spot. He is a top 5 highest paid guy on the team. But he didn't seize it last year. He is only projected to play there in spots this season. So where does he fit?
If he is just the backup SG. I don't like the signing. Back up SF? We have Marshall for that. Back up PF? We have a need and I think he might be OK there. But that is a ton of money for a back up. Especially one that will be hard pressed to be in the top 10 for 6th man of the year (not an elite enough scorer or defender).
I'm glad he is staying. I just wish I knew where he is going to fit in with this team..
Posted on 8/18/21 at 12:14 pm to cajun_tiger
quote:
but Harts deal is basically a lot like the Darius Miller contract in that its basically a walking trade exception and most of the money is non guaranteed
so a guaranteed one-year deal at 2x the QO, and two non-gtd years after that (team options)
Posted on 8/18/21 at 12:18 pm to cajun_tiger
quote:Shamit also mentioned that he talked to other guys from other teams (wasn't specific in terms of what type of guys) that said that they haven't seen a contract structured the way that this one is structured. Said it was definitely designed to be traded. I'm assuming that maybe the entire second and third years are non-guaranteed.
Listening to the "In the NO" podcast this am with Mason and Shamit and Mason is saying that he can't get into details but Harts deal is basically a lot like the Darius Miller contract in that its basically a walking trade exception and most of the money is non guaranteed. Kinda puts a completely different spin on this deal if true. Pay Hart almost double what the qualifying offer would have been to get him to agree to a 1 year deal that we can trade.
Sounds like pay Hart 13+ million in order to have him agree to be part of a trade this season (or next season if both the second and third seasons are non-guaranteed).
If that's the case, I wonder what that means about his playing time. If we're going to for sure trade him this season, are we going to give him the 6th most minutes?
Posted on 8/18/21 at 12:21 pm to Epic Cajun
I don't think it really means much from Willie's standpoint. Green will play Hart as much as possible since he plays exactly the way Green wants the entire team to play.
Posted on 8/18/21 at 12:34 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
If we're going to for sure trade him this season, are we going to give him the 6th most minutes?
gotta play him to trade him
Posted on 8/18/21 at 12:37 pm to cgrand
If you knew a player that makes you better would get injured mid season, you wouldn't sit that player, you'd just make sure to give enough minutes to the guys backing him up that they're ready when he goes.
Posted on 8/18/21 at 1:35 pm to Epic Cajun
That must've been the hold up.
Hart definitely wanted out.
Hart definitely wanted out.
Posted on 8/18/21 at 1:49 pm to cgrand
quote:obviously not playing him at all wouldn't be ideal but the salary he got, any trade he'd be included in would mostly be for salary matching purposes. So how much he plays and how good he's doing is of much less consequence I'd imagine.
gotta play him to trade him
Posted on 8/18/21 at 2:36 pm to shel311
quote:
obviously not playing him at all wouldn't be ideal but the salary he got, any trade he'd be included in would mostly be for salary matching purposes. So how much he plays and how good he's doing is of much less consequence I'd imagine.
Right, my question wasn't "are we going to play Hart?", it was more of "are we still going to play Hart 24+ minutes, or are we going to give some of those minutes to someone who may have to step up when he's traded?"
Maybe we give some minutes to Naji, that we wouldn't otherwise. Something like that.
Posted on 8/18/21 at 6:56 pm to Pelefraan 1
quote:
Hart used the unfollowing of Pels on Instagram/Twitter as leverage
I hope you don't believe that.
Posted on 8/18/21 at 7:02 pm to Bronc
quote:
There is no evidence to support that.
So until you provide it, all you are doing is fabricating narratives that confirm the biases you want to be true.
Too much of that shite around here and I’m not interested in playing that stupid game.
What we know is Hart was excited today, has been nothing but a good person since coming here, came to watch the team, work out with our players. Zero evidence he is some secretly disappointed or reluctant participant in these activities.
First of all you have problems.
Second of all hart wanted out.
It's as clear as day.
Posted on 8/18/21 at 7:04 pm to cgrand
quote:
gotta play him to trade him
I hope none of y'all really think that we are going to be focused on preserving trade value of guys like Hart, or that we're going to be focused on developing our young core ... or anything like that.
This season is about winning. It has to be. The best players are going to play.
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