re: The Walking Dead, Season 2, Episode 7 "Pretty Much Dead Already"

Nice work.

Also, good to see comic-readers now spoiling the comics for people. It doesn't really matter if it's a "weak" or minor spoiler...it still ruins shite for others. And there are threads for that shite. The episode threads aren't for that, yet there is spoiler-ish type shite in almost every one. It's fricking ridiculous.

From the article:

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As the smoke cleared from Shane’s barn-exterminating service and a skinny blonde child growled and hissed her way into the light, my first thought wasn’t “My God!” Or “Oh no!” It was: Who the hell is that? For a full minute, I honestly had no idea.

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If this guy couldn't figure out that Sophia was coming out of that barn (and especially AFTER she did), it makes it really difficult to take anything else he says seriously.

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So we're to believe that Sophia was bitten but able to get away from the walkers? Otherwise they would have just eaten her, correct?

Again, seems like more people would not be walkers because they'd be eaten. It's not like Otis could be a walker. Do that many really survive the initial attack?

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This has been my main question to this point in the series.

Excellent point!

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If this guy couldn't figure out that Sophia was coming out of that barn

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Yeah. "A full minute" has to be a serious exaggeration. He's a dummy.

Several people had already guessed on this forum that she was in the barn (unless they were nasty comic reading spoiler frickers), but I hadn't given it any creedence.

In the TV show... when you see that someone is still looking out of the barn, I had no idea who it might be. Then you see the shoes and you know its a kid. Then my 15 year old daughter screams out, "Its Sophia!!" and sure enough, they pan up and it is.

Awesome, awesome, awesome scene.

Finally watched it last night. Some thoughts...

GREAT FINALE. The final ten minutes of the episode were simply superb. Shane's been slowing developing into an actual character instead of just a bundle of rage, and it's not just that he kills all of the zombies, it's how he does it. Putting bullets in the woman's vitals just demonstrated how absurd Herchel's belief system is. He destroyed Herschel as a functional person in 30 seconds.

HERSCHEL. The best thing they did all year was slowly shift Herschel from a benevolent savior into mean, vaguely racist old man. His plan for rescuing the zombies was absurd, and incredibly dangerous -- that would have only convinced Rick even more about how dangerous the barn is. But what is unstated, yet clear in the episode, is how the balance of power completely shifts. Rick is asking, begging, pleading to stay on the farm but let's be honest -- Herschel has no ability to force them to leave. One group is armed, and it ain't his. He only has authority as long as Rick is playing nice and recognizes it. Property ownership is an illusion -- if Shane takes over the farm, what's Herschel gonna do? Call the cops?

DALE. I like Dale and think he's the moral center of the show, and I gravitate to characters like that. His plan to hide the guns so Shane won't kill everybody is doomed to fail but he is at least the only person who recognizes that Shane is less than human. I don't like how little evidence he has to accuse (albeit correctly) Shane of killing Otis but Shane all but confirms it. Shane will survive, but he's no longer human. Dale may die sooner, but he's right, he's retained his humanity. And that does matter when that's all you have left. It's not enough to merely survive, you have to live.

GLENN. Which brings us to Glenn, who has become the show's most dynamic character. His confrontation with Maggie was well done, as both come out of it looking better and growing as characters. But it also contained the most important line -- "I forgot they were dangerous." The farm is not safety, it is the illusion of safety. Glenn is tearing down all of the lies and looking at reality as it is. He also shows one can survive and still live. His fundamental decency shines through, and he has a great moment in the finale when he looks to Maggie before firing his gun. It's not a big deal, but he makes sure it's okay with her before he guns down her family -- she's realized too that these aren't people. But he waits for that realization before striking them down.

CARL. Beginning to become an actual person. I disagree with y'all about teaching him math. First off, math is useful -- it's not like he'll be learning calculus. Secondly, preserving knowledge is also important if they will ever rebuild. Sure, it won't happen in decades, but maybe Carl will live to see it. and knowing how to read, write, and do basic math will help. It goes back to merely surviving or living. He's not an animal.

SHANE. Shane has become the most interesting thing about the show. While he started as just an uninteresting ball of rage, he know has a coherent, if amoral, worldview. He's also not entirely wrong about things, though not as right as he thinks he is. He is right about the barn, though, and it needs a clear thinker like Shane to cut through the BS and demonstrate that these things are dangerous things which must be destroyed. However, he's wrong in that merely surviving is not enough. He's reverting to an animal, and becoming less of a man. He is "the Walking Dead" more than anyone, as he is completely dead on the inside, unable to have an emotion other than anger. It is not enough to merely perpetuate your life for no purpose. You have to live -- and maybe even enjoy a few things. He can't do that right now and bristles at any suggestion of people enjoying their lives, even if its for a moment. He has a plan for survival, but it is a miserable one.

SPOILERS. I think Spoiler Nazis need to chill the f out. I've never read issue 91 or whatever, but it will in no way impact my enjoyment of the story if I do. Though I have read the Compendium, which is about the first 48 issues.

I agree with what you said about Shane. However Shanes are necessary so that the pansies and idiots can enjoy the pleasure of living...see Rick

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Also, good to see comic-readers now spoiling the comics for people. It doesn't really matter if it's a "weak" or minor spoiler...it still ruins shite for others. And there are threads for that shite. The episode threads aren't for that, yet there is spoiler-ish type shite in almost every one. It's fricking ridiculous.

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No shite. I've been saying this for 2 seasons

!!!!LSUZombie, Enigma and Mt1 have read the comics everyone!!!!

Acknowledge how much of a badass zombie lovers they are. Kiss their zombie rings. Maybe they will shut up for the next run of episodes.

The only thing that pisses me off about the show is that the groups of survivors never have any dogs. Talk about an excellent early warning system. Hell there is not a dog on the farm, I have never seen a farm without a dog.

Even the Hispanic good hearted gang didn't have a dog.

If I survive in the PAZW my group will have a dog.

pretty good take, there.

i'm glad you admitted to liking dale cuz i kinda do too. i too gravitate to the moral centers.

the thing he has for andrea (whatever it is) feels funny but overall i liked the scene btwn him and shane.

i think the first season, especially the first few episodes of the first season, have been hard to live up to.

but this was my favorite episode of the second season (so far). enjoyed the run for med supplies at the school and also the zombie herd.

looking fwd to feb.

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So what was the significance of Rick being the one to kill Sophia? Or was that purely for dramatic effect?

I really cant see any scenario where Rick/Shane aren't on the same side. This season was priming IMO a rick/shane fallout but I think this episode and Rick killing Sophia at the end put an end to that.

I saw in another thread where someone mentioned Darryls brother Meryl could come back and play a role. Right now I think thats the most logical guess. have Meryl come back and play up Darryl picking sides and then a rick/shane vs meryl showdown.

I think Rick has turned a corner and now understands that some of what Shane is saying is right. I expect to see a different Rick from hear on out. A more badass one.

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i think shane not being the one to put sophia down actually gave shane a moment of humanity and probably guilt.


i would think they eventually have to move on from the farm. you can only move the story so far from here. no real threat of walkers really. something will happen to drive them from there. unless the group splits or something.