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re: Game of Thrones S8E5 "The Bells" is officially the worst reviewed GOT episode yet
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:19 am to SWCBonfire
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:19 am to SWCBonfire
quote:
It was poor filmmaking. How is the audience supposed to make the leap from her resting on a rooftop after battle, to full-on Mad Queen mode other than a scowl on her face and no lines, speeches, etc.? Shakespeare would have had a monologue to explain what happens next. In filmmaking, you don't typically have that option, so you would use a montage. A montage depicting a scene/glimpse of her family getting slaughtered during Robert's rebellion, changing every time a bell rang, with escalating music coming to a crescendo right before she torched everything. Would have been epic and given the audience a REASON (even if it was a poor one).
I could get down with this, but in general, I think it's poor all around to have her go Mad Queen.
Like with Jaime, he's an addict, a slave to a evil blonde psychopath. Totally relatable, IMO. He knows what's good for him, and he could fulfill that, and has even the nature to do so. At the same time, he went groveling back to Cersei because that's his weakness. His "character arc" not resulting in permanent growth, is sort of the nature of his arc to begin with.
However, with Daeny, the "descent" in to madness wasn't a descent at all, and with the Targaryen "coin flipping" thing, its about the very Targaryen nature being Mad or not. Well she hasn't shown madness, and in fact was measured and not like her father for so long, it's crazy to think it just flipped a switch like that. In fact, it's not about someone being "born" mad and evil, it's almost like the writers forgot about it, and then sort of went to how she was forced to that path, and in that case, it's a normal heel turn.
Iunno, it just doesn't feel well done. Walter White had to push the line of evil actions one by one. That's the GOAT heel turn. This feels almost as bad as Anakin in the prequels.
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Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
uh and John, Tyrion, and Varys again, D/D completely failed at explaining WHY they loved her, but they were all Dany (for years, in terms of Tyrion and Varys)
Who all betrayed her and their betrayal took away her entire identity. Now in your experience if you take away the foundation of a borderline persons identity while at the same time removing their support system how does that typically end?
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:22 am to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
Yeah, but did they LOVE her?
well "love" for Vary is weird, but he fricked up his entire life to get Tyrion to her to have her rule Westeros
he's a "man without desires" but clearly desired her to rule after meeting her
and Tyrion clearly loved her. that's why they juxtaposed him being all emo when Jon was fricking her in season 7
quote:
She wanted the people to love her and herald her as a savior from the tyranny of Cersei.
we never got to see how they'd react to her
she's only dealt with nobles and battles
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:23 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that is a good point but we will never be allowed to see this develop b/c of the truncated season
that's the problem with relying on shock twists alone instead of building things through story and character
there are interesting places this could go (and it would have been super interesting to watch actual character development lead to this point), but nope, we have 1 more episode!
This is shite you want to see, it’s not important to the storyline
Do you think she doesn’t know what dragonfire and burning a city to the ground does to people? You need them to flesh that out in 5-6 episodes?
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:23 am to buckeye_vol
quote:quote:
That video link that keeps getting posted of the cast talking about the final season when asked is pretty telling. Even they didn't care for what was written for their characters.
Some posters point out on Reddit that they’re asked again and again about the same spoilers that they can’t reveal, and many actors have stated that “press tours,” are the worst part of their job, let alone when it requires such secrecy with the people constantly badgering for the same secrets over and over again.
That's a fair point, but that doesn't explain away everything that's out there.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I disagree. The development would always be lacking compared to the books since we don’t get the character’s inner thoughts. And they were limited in what they could do with her actions because they would have caused Jon and her allies to see her for that she can be.
that is a good point but we will never be allowed to see this develop b/c of the truncated season
Regardless, I think we did get a pretty good development of this, and I think Dickon’s execution was not only an extremely important event to show that, I find it almost more extreme in some ways than just burning a city to the ground.
And regardless I think people are assigning too much “madness” and “evilness” to her actions instead of just pure “ruthlessness of a raging conquerer.”
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 8:28 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:25 am to Sasquatch Smash
quote:No. But everything out there doesn’t explain anything really. We have no idea what they’re feeling and why they’re feeling that way.
That's a fair point, but that doesn't explain away everything that's out there.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 8:28 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:25 am to Adam Banks
quote:
Who all betrayed her
Tyrion never betrayed her. that was bad writing to try to create that conflict (more forced conflict. yay!)
same with John. he didn't "betray" her, either. that's just bad writing / forced conflict. D/D's specialty
Varys only did when he realized she was going to frick this up, so that doesn't count
quote:
Now in your experience if you take away the foundation of a borderline persons identity while at the same time removing their support system how does that typically end?
they'll probably lash out, but they won't become a serial killer and rack up 100 deaths, which is the "normal person" equivalent to Dany
so not only was this not set up (except with forced conflict that made no sense), but, again, the reaction was exponentially disproportionate to the reality. it's just bad writing. again, that's the complaint about this season: bad writing
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:26 am to SammyTiger
quote:
But that doesn't change the fact that season eight is objectively bad by Game of Thrones standards. The writing has effectively killed this show.
quote:
Opinion is subjective.
quote:
Regardless of what you think of the story, that was objectively an incredible 90 minutes of TV.
You probably should point that out to the other poster as well.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 8:27 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
we never got to see how they'd react to her she's only dealt with nobles and battles
From her perspective we did. She has given ample time for the people to turn on Cersei and the Lannister army. When the battle starts they don’t flee the city. They don’t run to the gates. They don’t run to the north men or the unsullied for protection. They run towards the red keep. They choose Cersei. Hence them showing Jamie and the mass of people trying to get towards the red keep
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:28 am to RB10
quote:
I don’t know about everyone else, but the fact that the enemy they spent 7 full seasons building up turning out to be a massive dud kind of killed it for me.
This is where I think the books, if they ever get finished, will be much better.
I get that the ultimate battle was for the iron throne, but the first scene in the whole series set the WW up as an almost impossible to beat force.
And they got annihilated in the first battle south of the wall.
That was a bad decision forced into the show because the writers wanted a short final season.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:28 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
This is shite you want to see, it’s not important to the storyline
oh Dany actually developing into madness isn't important to the story?
don't tell those people defending last episode this
watching the effects of her madness isn't important to the story? in a show based around these sorts of conflicts?
don't tell the actual fans of GOT this
quote:
Do you think she doesn’t know what dragonfire and burning a city to the ground does to people? You need them to flesh that out in 5-6 episodes?
the after effects of this event would be 100x more interesting (assuming they're written well) than anything we've seen the past few seasons. hell, D/D already had an opportunity to do something similar (with the stupid Sept nuke) and ignored it
those are the types of stories that made this show great
it's telling that they're utterly abandoned and ignored in exchange for battles (many that ultimately mean nothing)
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
same with John. he didn't "betray" her, either. that's just bad writing / forced conflict. D/D's specialty
Are you serious with this? Giving someone your word, and then going back on it is basically the definition of betrayal
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:29 am to LuckySo-n-So
quote:
The same people bitching about the “rushed nature, little character development, and time issues” would be bitching about “too much talking!!! Where’s muh draginz?!?!” and “OMG...who cares about what _________ is thinking....Muh White Walkers!!!
Good writing properly balances both of these. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:29 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
He has said the show is more or less following the outline he gave them for the final books
Outline is the most important word here.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:30 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
he development would always be lacking compared to the books
we're not comparing this to the books
we're comparing this to early GOT, back when it was great
quote:
since we don’t get the character’s inner thoughts
this didn't limit the early seasons
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:31 am to RollTide1987
That's pretty ridiculous. It was one of the better episodes of the last two seasons.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:32 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Tyrion never betrayed her. that was bad writing to try to create that conflict (more forced conflict. yay!)
Tyrion purposefully kept knowledge from her because he’s questioning her judgement.
quote:
same with John. he didn't "betray" her, either.
When she specifically asked him not to he spread the bit of information that would ruin her. What else can you call that?
quote:
they won't become a serial killer and rack up 100 deaths, which is the "normal person" equivalent to Dany
What do you think the average school shooter or the Vegas shooter would do if they had a friggin dragon instead? You are trying to comprehend the actions of the insane with a sane mind
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:33 am to rich4pres
quote:
I thought episode 5 was the best episode this year.
Same here.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 8:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:What? Of course he didn’t betray her. Just like someone doesn’t betray her best friend when she lets her friend know that her spouse has been cheating on her. But I’ve seen a surprising number of stories where the friend is the one who accused of betrayal and dishonesty.
same with John. he didn't "betray" her, either. that's just bad writing / forced conflict. D/D's specialty
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