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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 1/28/11 at 9:50 am to Michael J Cocks
quote:
Do you have actual evidence that he did?
His head ballooning is pretty solid evidence.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 9:51 am to Bench McElroy
I saw a repeat of "In Living Color" last week and bonds was on there....circa '92. I didn't recognize that skinny little f*ck.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 9:52 am to rdw1690
quote:
So why did he take them?
Because he was "keeping up with the Joneses". Or in this case, the McGuires and Sosas. He didn't want to be overshadowed by two inferior players who were getting the spotlight only because they were juicing.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 9:52 am to rdw1690
quote:To be the greatest homerun hitter of all time.
So why did he take them?
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:00 am to rdw1690
quote:
His head ballooning is pretty solid evidence.
of HGH maybe, not roids.
and if he did take HGH so what. It helps recovery and it might extend someones career. and IF he did it, so was everyone else that played in his era.
And by comparison, if Steroids is Cocaine, then HGH is 5 hour energy.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:01 am to Baloo
quote:
Are you insane? First, we have no idea when Bonds starting juicing, and really only circumstantial evidence he did (but let's assume he did). We don't know squat about the particulars of his PED use, and it's all rumor and conjuecture.
Not that that is the debate, but I would say earlier than that. I'll move on,,,
quote:
But let's assume Bonds didn't start using until after the McGwire/Sosa HR chase, the accepted storyline. Had Bonds been hit by a bus right then, he would've been a Hall of Famer. And not a borderline Jim Rice HOF'er. I'm talking, inner-cricle, Oh My God He Was Awesome HOF. Bonds was the best player on earth for a decade before he touched steroids. Comparing him to Robinson Cano is ridiculous.
I agree Bonds was a HOFer. Sure, no doubt about. I wasn't trying to put Cano and Ramirez in the same breath as Bonds. But if the two keep up the same stats as they are putting up now for years to come, they could could be the best at their respected position for this era, maybe even HOF worthy. This is a lot of assumptions I know. But Hanley is 26. Has a .313 career avg, close to 30 hrs a year, over a 100 runs a year and averages over 40 steals a year. That's a pretty impressive career so far for a SS. I guess my argument is really, that if you take an extremely gifted baseball player and put him on roids, he's going to get a lot better. Deep, I know.
This post was edited on 1/28/11 at 10:04 am
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:09 am to Moustache
quote:Kige + 2
Dude is a hall of famer with or without roids.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:18 am to Baloo
quote:
But let's assume Bonds didn't start using until after the McGwire/Sosa HR chase, the accepted storyline. Had Bonds been hit by a bus right then, he would've been a Hall of Famer. And not a borderline Jim Rice HOF'er. I'm talking, inner-cricle, Oh My God He Was Awesome HOF. Bonds was the best player on earth for a decade before he touched steroids.
Allegedly he started taking them after the 1998 season. His career stats at that point were:
..AB...Runs...Hits....2B....3B...HR....RBI.....BB....IBB.....K.....SB.....BA...OBP...Slug%...OPS
6621...1364...1917...403...63...411...1216...1357...289...1050...445...290...411.....556......966
He was just 33 years old
He was already a 3 time NL MVP and had finished in the Top 5 four other times
And was an 8 time Gold Glove winner
And just to show how dangerous of a hitter he was at that time, those 289 intentional walks ranked 2nd all time, just 4 behind Hank Aaron's MLB record.
No doubt he was a Hall of Famer at that point
Now this is all speculative, but if he had played 7 more seasons and put up average numbers of say: 75 runs, 155 hits, 20 doubles, 25 HRs, and 70 walks, he would have finished his career with:
1,889 Runs: 9th All-Time
3,002 Hits: 27th All-Time
543 Doubles: 24th All-Time
586 Home Runs: 8th All-Time
1,847 Walks: 5th All-Time
This post was edited on 1/28/11 at 10:20 am
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:23 am to SPEEDY
This is what I always told the assholes who do not believe steroid users should be in Cooperstown. Bonds was a HOF by 1999 (the year it is assumed he began taking steroids).
If he does not get in, then I want to build a Hall of Fame with the steroid era players, Joe Jackson, Pete Rose, etc.
IMO, Bonds is at least a top 10 all time player, and possibly top 5.
If he does not get in, then I want to build a Hall of Fame with the steroid era players, Joe Jackson, Pete Rose, etc.
IMO, Bonds is at least a top 10 all time player, and possibly top 5.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:23 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
my argument is really, that if you take an extremely gifted baseball player and put him on roids, he's going to get a lot better
really? Is there any actual proof of this or just assumptions and anecdotel evidence?
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:27 am to SPEEDY
quote:
1,889 Runs: 9th All-Time
3,002 Hits: 27th All-Time
543 Doubles: 24th All-Time
586 Home Runs: 8th All-Time
1,847 Walks: 5th All-Time
Hmm. Pretty fair projection IMO. I think he might of been higher in home runs, probably over the 600 mark. Hard to say though. I know he never hit 50 in his life outside of the year he hit 73.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:31 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
I know he never hit 50 in his life outside of the year he hit 73.
Maris never hit 40 except for 1961
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:33 am to H-Town Tiger
Obviously, ALL outliers are due to steroids. 
You had a great day at the office, clearly it was steroids.
Your mother in law is nice to you, all because of the juice.
You had a great day at the office, clearly it was steroids.
Your mother in law is nice to you, all because of the juice.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:42 am to TenTex
quote:
He has no need to take roids anymore. He will be dead in 10 years or less for abusing his body with performance enhancing drugs.
You're such an uninformed fricking idiot. Go eat some more each cream, you fat fingered frick.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:43 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
my argument is really, that if you take an extremely gifted baseball player and put him on roids, he's going to get a lot stronger
indeed
Posted on 1/28/11 at 10:53 am to Towelie
Juicing in and of itself doesn't make you stronger. You still need to work out. The juice helps you to work out longer and recover faster.
I'm not an advocate of it, mind you, but let's be honest here at the same time.
I'm not an advocate of it, mind you, but let's be honest here at the same time.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 11:40 am to Dallas Tiger
quote:
saw a repeat of "In Living Color" last week and bonds was on there....circa '92. I didn't recognize that skinny little f*ck.
I know the guy probably did steroids, but how many people are the same size at 39 years old as they are at 21-24?
Posted on 1/28/11 at 11:45 am to Moustache
i know a former trainer that used to work with some giants, including Bonds at times, who thinks his steroid use started closer to the mid to early 90s than it did later on.
he says a certain player brought them around..Bonds was one of the ones who used. Rich Aurilla another, albeit years later
he says a certain player brought them around..Bonds was one of the ones who used. Rich Aurilla another, albeit years later
This post was edited on 1/28/11 at 11:53 am
Posted on 1/28/11 at 11:49 am to Lester Earl
2 words for anyone that doesn't believe roids helped these guys - and a lot.
Bret Boone.
Bret Boone.
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