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re: Barry Bonds sure has lost some weight from his playing days
Posted on 1/28/11 at 3:16 pm to Sophandros
Posted on 1/28/11 at 3:16 pm to Sophandros
quote:
. I contend that at least half the league was, so using league wide numbers is relevant.
quote:
I'm asking you to provide tangible evidence, not anecdotal evidence
Do you hear yourself talk?
1
Posted on 1/28/11 at 3:19 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Thank you for including pitchers in this.
With the exception of elite, elite level heat 100+. Most major leaguers have no problem catching up to a fast ball rather it be 90 or 95. I don't buy it being a bigger advantage for pitchers.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 3:20 pm to barry
That's my point.
You want to say that steroids had a big impact on the game, well let's see the evidence. If the numbers show no overall change, then one of two things must be true:
Either steroids did NOT have a significant impact,
OR
Steroids DID have an impact, but everyone was using them.
You want to say that steroids had a big impact on the game, well let's see the evidence. If the numbers show no overall change, then one of two things must be true:
Either steroids did NOT have a significant impact,
OR
Steroids DID have an impact, but everyone was using them.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 3:21 pm to barry
quote:
I don't buy it being a bigger advantage for pitchers.
The main benefit of steroid use is to shorten the length of recovery time between workouts. This also allows for people to work out for longer. I pitcher on the juice can throw heat for longer and recover faster between starts or relief appearances.
Steroids isn't all about getting big.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 3:25 pm to Sophandros
Yea all those 140 lb dudes I knew in high school juiced because they wanted quick workout recovery.
I really couldnt tell the difference either.
I really couldnt tell the difference either.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 3:25 pm to Sophandros
quote:
I pitcher on the juice can throw heat for longer and recover faster between starts or relief appearances.
Muscles but not tendons.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 3:29 pm to Sophandros
quote:
However, if there is a huge impact, it should be quantifiable.
well, not necessarily
1. not everyone was using. If the whole MLB was using, it was easily be quantifiable.
if it were just 5-6 guys per team, that would be huge in my eyes.
that doesnt seem like a lot on a team of 27, but if 5 guys on every team were using PED's, you are looking at upwards of 150 MLB'ers using steroids.
2. even yourself admits it was widespread against pitchers. If both hitters and pitchers were using, it at least levels the playing field. And it could be another reason why nothing looks too out of sync with other numbers
those are my simple observations. I dont have the numbers in front of me. But Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire hitting all those HR's was not normal. Roger Clemens throwing 95 at 40 and winning a cy young is not normal. Brady Anderson and Luiz Gonazalez hitting 50 HRs...not normal
At the very least, baseball more than any other sport cherishes their records and milestones. And this era, especially on the offensive side, simply shite all over them. That, if anything, makes it a huge deal, imo
Posted on 1/28/11 at 3:29 pm to barry
Lets agree to disagree.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 3:35 pm to Lester Earl
I agree wit Lester, barry, etc.
The PED's don't give you talent, but it allows those elite players that already have the talent to hit the ball harder, farther, etc. Also the shortened time to heal makes a huge difference.
The PED's don't give you talent, but it allows those elite players that already have the talent to hit the ball harder, farther, etc. Also the shortened time to heal makes a huge difference.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:11 pm to barry
quote:
The fricking drugs are called PED's, PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS. I don't need a study to tell me fricking cheese makes everything better. Its just that bleeping obvious.
That's your proof? The name? Really?
I think its safe to say, my thershold of proof and yours is vastly different. But I don't want to shatter your preconceived notions by actually thinking or anything.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:19 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
I dont have the numbers in front of me. But Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire hitting all those HR's was not normal. Roger Clemens throwing 95 at 40 and winning a cy young is not normal. Brady Anderson and Luiz Gonazalez hitting 50 HRs...not normal
Babe Ruth hitting 60 HR in 1927 was not only not normal, it was more than some teams hit. And again, Maris hitting 61 was not normal. His 61 was more of an outlier than Brady Anderson's.
not normal does not prove PED's were the reason, even if those guys did use.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:21 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
I think its safe to say, my thershold of proof and yours is vastly different.
Its a joke dumbass. I mean its hilarious you think steroids don't help you hit a baseball farther. I can't even fathom how you cannot understand this.
If you workout and then start working out with steroids they will make you stronger
Being stronger allows you to hit a baseball farther and harder then your weaker previous self
Tell me is there anything not true in these statements.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:23 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Babe Ruth hitting 60 HR in 1927 was not only not normal, it was more than some teams hit.
and he did so consistently.
quote:
nd again, Maris hitting 61 was not normal. His 61 was more of an outlier
So thats ONE outlier compared to the bunches that happened during the Steriod era.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:25 pm to barry
quote:
So thats ONE outlier compared to the bunches that happened during the Steriod era.
what bunches? We had 3 guys instead of 1, that's not bunches.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:28 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
what bunches? We had 3 guys instead of 1, that's not bunches.
I'm talking about the outliers in a persons career. Its just so much evidence and yall are doing everything yall can think of to accept the obvious answer.
Also answer my question about the two statements.
This post was edited on 1/28/11 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:30 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Babe Ruth hitting 60 HR in 1927 was not only not normal, it was more than some teams hit. And again, Maris hitting 61 was not normal. His 61 was more of an outlier than Brady Anderson's.
Horrible comparisons.
quote:
not normal does not prove PED's were the reason, even if those guys did use.
saying the best hitter of all time hit 60 HR's once doesnt prove anything either.
quote:
His 61 was more of an outlier than Brady Anderson's.
someone who hit 39 HR and won the MVP the season before hitting 61 is more of an outlier than someone who goes 16 to 50?
Anderson shattered his previous high of HR by 29 and RBI by 30.
what the hell are you smoking?
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:30 pm to barry
quote:
I mean its hilarious you think steroids don't help you hit a baseball farther. I can't even fathom how you cannot understand this.
I didn't say that, I said there is no proof other than anecdotal eveidence.
Bonds, Sosa and McGwire were already guys that could hit HR's. If it does in fact increase performance than there should be several studies that show that it does. It should also increase the performance of marginal players, not just a couple of elite players
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:30 pm to barry
Studies done of HR rates during the "steroid era" show that the HR rate went up by about 2-3%. Remember, this could also be attributable to smaller ballparks and thin-handled bats. There's virtually no evidence of a power jump.
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:32 pm to Baloo
quote:
Studies done of HR rates during the "steroid era" show that the HR rate went up by about 2-3%.
i dont think the whole league was on steroids
Posted on 1/28/11 at 4:35 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
That's a pretty ridiculous statement
Why?
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