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re: Why do people forget how mediocre Joe Burrow&Jayden Daniels were in YR 1 starting at LSU?
Posted on 12/18/24 at 3:35 pm to cbree88
Posted on 12/18/24 at 3:35 pm to cbree88
quote:
Why do people forget how mediocre Joe Burrow&Jayden Daniels were in YR 1 starting at LSU?
They were not mediocre. They were better than average. Not many at all could've seen their glow-ups the following season, however.
Were they expected to get better? Absolutely. Did most think they would each be generational Heisman winners? No.
0
Posted on 12/18/24 at 3:41 pm to cbree88
quote:Burrow was always Burrow.
Joe in 2018 was nothing special. Some people were calling for his job and saying “we still don’t have a quarterback”.
In 2018, he was held back by Ensminger's offense. Remember, Ensminger had all the 2019 offensive talent on the 2018 roster. But he didn't do much with it.
Only when Brady came in 2019 was that talent unleashed. It wasn't due to some magical improvement by Burrow. His talent was always there - just not used properly in 2018.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 3:56 pm to cbree88
Its undeniable Nuss had a better first year starting than Joe and Jayden, but...
I think the better question is, Do we think Nuss makes the same leap year one to year 2 than those 2 did?
With Sloan as OC, I'm betting against it.
Temper expectations
I think the better question is, Do we think Nuss makes the same leap year one to year 2 than those 2 did?
With Sloan as OC, I'm betting against it.
Temper expectations
Posted on 12/18/24 at 4:19 pm to cbree88
Joe wasn't mediocre. Like Nuss, he had no receivers. In 18, many passes bounced off the hands or abdomen of the receivers. Sullivan and those guys, instead of high pointing the ball tried to catch it with their arms. 6'5" Receiver shut down with a 5'9" receiver.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 4:35 pm to cbree88
Because both turned out to be generational QBs. The odds of that happening 3 times in a row for one team is beyond astronomical. I think Nuss is a good QB but let’s be honest here, he only had those passing yards this year because what the frick else were we supposed to do offensively? Our running game was putrid arse this year. We had decent to good running game both JD and Burrow’s starting years.
I’m not knocking Nuss at all with this. Like I said, I think he’s a good QB. He’s got some issues he needs to work on this off season to become an elite QB. Can he do it? I sure hope so because if he can even slightly cut back on his turnover rate and learn to sometimes just tuck it and fricking run, with what we got coming in from the portal and recruiting this year, we could have a damn good shot at a championship next year.
I’m not knocking Nuss at all with this. Like I said, I think he’s a good QB. He’s got some issues he needs to work on this off season to become an elite QB. Can he do it? I sure hope so because if he can even slightly cut back on his turnover rate and learn to sometimes just tuck it and fricking run, with what we got coming in from the portal and recruiting this year, we could have a damn good shot at a championship next year.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 4:42 pm to BayouCowboy
quote:
He was a top 5 Heisman contender after we beat Bama in the first week of November.
The next week he was 8/15 86 yds 1 INT and 1 fumble lost vs Arkansas. We lose to the hogs if Perk doesn't go superman that game. Then 2 weeks after that with the game tied with aggie fumbles on a 4th and 1 read option that should have gone to Emery and the aggies run it back for a TD and LSU never recovers.
He had some games where he struggled and he did have the flu against Arkansas, but he was much better than mediocre on the season as the OP said. He definitely needed to let it rip more and was way too hesitant at times, but he was also the SEC Offensive Player of the Week in our biggest wins against Bama and Ole Miss, he led the nation in QB rushing yards, set the LSU QB rushing yards and rushing TD record, and had 17 pass TDs to just 3 picks. We were just spoiled with Burrow's senior year. JD did become more decisive though, and he became great long ball passer after struggling his first year with those things.
Burrow had some very good moments in 2018, but looked like a game manager-type for a lot of that season. So yes, QBs can make drastic improvements from one year to the next.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 4:47 pm to Barracuda
quote:
and Nuss needs to do some serious work on his own speed this offseason.
He needs to work on his foot work and quit throwing off his back foot when he should learn to take what the D is giving him and run. It would have been interesting to see what he would have put up with the receivers Burrow and Daniels had.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 4:58 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
We have to hope for a similar jump, but Nuss isn’t a transfer learning a new system.
He’s been here 4 years.
not just at LSU, but at many schools (and even NFL teams) a guys in their 2nd year starting do make big jumps due to the experience/learning/game slowing down.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 5:06 pm to cbree88
They were not mediocre, they were simply not spectacular as they were in year two. The same is true for Nuss except for his Ints.
As LSU QBs they were top 10 passers in terms of yards in their second season at the time they were the #4 (Burrow) and #5 (Daniels). If Nuss throws for 75 yards in the bowl game he will have the second-best passing season (in yards) in LSU History, surpassing JDs second season. 2 TDs will tie him for the 3rd best season at LSU for TDs.
Nuss also is currently the #9 all-time passer in yards and tIed for 6th all-time in TD with Matt Mauk.
As LSU QBs they were top 10 passers in terms of yards in their second season at the time they were the #4 (Burrow) and #5 (Daniels). If Nuss throws for 75 yards in the bowl game he will have the second-best passing season (in yards) in LSU History, surpassing JDs second season. 2 TDs will tie him for the 3rd best season at LSU for TDs.
Nuss also is currently the #9 all-time passer in yards and tIed for 6th all-time in TD with Matt Mauk.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 5:12 pm to cbree88
I was a little stunned by just how much JD developed as a passer from jr to sr, but you could see the writing on the wall with burrow the entire second half of jr year… was obvious he had it.
I think Nuss could have it as well, if he gets a semblance of a run game to compliment his skills. But jury is still out because I’ve seen him run the 2m drill under presser but also seen him choke under pressure.
Don’t ever recall Burrow or JD flat out choking in a win-lose spot tbh.
I think Nuss could have it as well, if he gets a semblance of a run game to compliment his skills. But jury is still out because I’ve seen him run the 2m drill under presser but also seen him choke under pressure.
Don’t ever recall Burrow or JD flat out choking in a win-lose spot tbh.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 5:13 pm to cbree88
After the Miami and Auburn wins in 2018, I was sold on Burrow.
After the Florida, Ole Miss & Bama wins in 2022, I was sold on Jaden.
After the Florida, Ole Miss & Bama wins in 2022, I was sold on Jaden.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 5:16 pm to cbree88
The comparison of year 1 and 2 is as obvious as it gets. Nothing novel or insightful about it. Sure, Nuss could follow a similar path. But the 3 QBs are entirely different QBs also.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 6:13 pm to cbree88
In each of their first year's at LSU, Burrow and Daniels were:
(1) new to Louisiana;
(2) new to Baton Rouge;
(3) new to LSU campus;
(4) new to LSU culture;
(5) new to the head coach;
(6) new to the offensive coordinator;
(7) new to the offensive scheme;
(8) new to the offensive line;
(9) new to the receivers;
(10) new to LSU football operations;
(11) new to the SEC;
(12) new to Tiger Stadium;
(13) new to damn near everything.
On the other hand, in his "YR 1," Nuss was not new to any of that.
Before his "YR 1" even started, Nuss had already thrown 219 passes in an LSU uniform in 18 games with 1 start.
Nuss knew from the beginning of the 2022 season that he would be the starter in 2024. He had two entire seasons, offseasons, and summers to work with his receivers.
Nuss's "YR 1" was nothing like Burrow's or Daniels' first year at LSU.
(1) new to Louisiana;
(2) new to Baton Rouge;
(3) new to LSU campus;
(4) new to LSU culture;
(5) new to the head coach;
(6) new to the offensive coordinator;
(7) new to the offensive scheme;
(8) new to the offensive line;
(9) new to the receivers;
(10) new to LSU football operations;
(11) new to the SEC;
(12) new to Tiger Stadium;
(13) new to damn near everything.
On the other hand, in his "YR 1," Nuss was not new to any of that.
Before his "YR 1" even started, Nuss had already thrown 219 passes in an LSU uniform in 18 games with 1 start.
Nuss knew from the beginning of the 2022 season that he would be the starter in 2024. He had two entire seasons, offseasons, and summers to work with his receivers.
Nuss's "YR 1" was nothing like Burrow's or Daniels' first year at LSU.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 6:24 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Does that sound like someone who is comfortable & who won't work harder to improve? Nuss obviously came back for a reason
Brody I never said he was comfortable or couldn’t get better. He didn’t go pro because frankly, he wasn’t good enough last year. Sometime in Oct he was in a spot potentially to take advantage of a weak QB class and he just tumbled horribly. I don’t think that’s grounds breaking or anything.
quote:
C'mon man, Nuss had to throw it more out of necessity but that wasn't his fault. He shouldered almost the entire offensive load due to an inconsistent run game. Despite all of that, Nuss still responded very well for a 1st year starter. You cannot deny that. You cannot deny that his arm talent is legit & he showed the ability to make NFL, tight window throws. Yes, he has aspects of his game that he needs to work on but you simply trolling if you refuse to admit that his abilities bring plenty to the table to build off of.
He had all the tools. His highs are great & tantalizing, but the lows were really bad and all too common. There was just not much middle ground at all with him.
So yes, you look at the highs and see what he is capable of and of course you want that consistently.
All that to say, pretending he was better than Daniels and burrow because he had more impressive counting stats that were all due to volume of throw attempts is just silly & ignorant.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 6:28 pm to cbree88
Mediocre?
No.
No.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 6:33 pm to cbree88
None of those frickers will go look at the roster, especially the wide receiver positions. Nuss had way less talent than both those frickers did. Daniel’s had two first round wide receivers both years.
fricking Burrow had the best wide receiver in the NFL and a bunch of other talent with him.
fricking Burrow had the best wide receiver in the NFL and a bunch of other talent with him.
This post was edited on 12/18/24 at 7:01 pm
Posted on 12/18/24 at 6:41 pm to Salviati
quote:
(6) new to the offensive coordinator;
quote:
On the other hand, in his "YR 1," Nuss was not new to any of that.
Sloan was OC last year?
quote:
7) new to the offensive scheme;
See above
quote:
(9) new to the receivers;
CJ and Zavion were transfers this year. Anderson was here last season but was minimally productive due to injury recovery. Hilton who Nuss had developed a pretty good camp connection with went down the 1st qtr of game 1.
Not sure how to respond to some of your other points. Seems like a "one of us" argument.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 6:41 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
He didn’t go pro because frankly, he wasn’t good enough last year. Sometime in Oct he was in a spot potentially to take advantage of a weak QB class and he just tumbled horribly.
His worst games of the season just so happened to occur when Dellinger went down with his high ankle sprain. Constant interior pressure will cause any QB to struggle even NFL Hall of Famers.
quote:
He had all the tools. His highs are great & tantalizing, but the lows were really bad and all too common. There was just not much middle ground at all with him.
At least you are finally able to mention the positives to his game. You are making progress.
quote:
So yes, you look at the highs and see what he is capable of and of course you want that consistently.
We are on the same page here. No one is saying his game is perfect but now with a season of game film under his belt, he has a guide now to go off of when it comes down to corrections that need to be made to his game. That's not something he had going into this past season.
quote:
All that to say, pretending he was better than Daniels and burrow because he had more impressive counting stats that were all due to volume of throw attempts is just silly & ignorant.
I'm honestly not interested in that debate. I'm very much interested in using Burrow & Daniels as examples of QB who showed growth & development. Nuss is going to be 5th year senior which means more time to perfect his craft which will be similar to both Burrow & Daniels heading into their final seasons. Hell, you can throw Mett into this conversation as well when comes to having more time to prepare heading into his final season & the improvement he made his final season. To many people are writing Nuss off saying he won't develop further & at this point he is who he is. That's nonsense & it's foolish to believe that a 1st year starter can't use an offseason to improve in year 2. That's more of my point & where I stand in this discussion.
This post was edited on 12/18/24 at 6:53 pm
Posted on 12/18/24 at 7:07 pm to BayouCowboy
quote:Sloan was on staff as the QB coach. Sloan and Nuss spent hundreds of hours together. Nuss was not new to Sloan.
(6) new to the offensive coordinator;
Sloan was OC last year?
quote:Neither Denbrock nor Sloan ran their own offensive scheme. Nor were the schemes radically different from each other. They ran the offensive scheme that Kelly wanted them to run. Nuss was not new to the offensive scheme.
7) new to the offensive scheme;
See above
quote:The vast majority of targets wen to Lacy, Anderson, Taylor, and Williams. Nuss was not new to the receivers.
(9) new to the receivers;
CJ and Zavion were transfers this year. Anderson was here last season but was minimally productive due to injury recovery. Hilton who Nuss had developed a pretty good camp connection with went down the 1st qtr of game 1.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 7:23 pm to cbree88
quote:
Why do people forget how mediocre Joe Burrow&Jayden Daniels were in YR 1 starting at LSU?
In terms of mobility and decision making Nuss is neither JD nor Burrow
This post was edited on 12/18/24 at 7:37 pm
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