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DeathByTossDive225
| Favorite team: | LSU  |
| Location: | Baton Rouge |
| Biography: | |
| Interests: | |
| Occupation: | |
| Number of Posts: | 8244 |
| Registered on: | 9/3/2019 |
| Online Status: | Not Online |
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re: The “blame anyone else” trend continues + a history lesson for goldfish.
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 12:54 pm to Jbird
You could just quit giving me material by refusing to hold Trump accountable for anything ever.
1
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 12:52 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The final Taliban offensive began only when the US troop pullout was nearly complete
Which is why criticism of the execution is warranted.
What does that have to do with the fact that sending troops back in to try and secure and then maintain a permanent base would have been an escalation and all but voided any previous agreement?
The “blame anyone else” trend continues + a history lesson for goldfish.
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 12:50 pm
Yes this is a response thread. Apparently now it’s Joe Biden’s fault this war hasn’t ended in one week.
Because he is the reason we don’t have a permanent base at Bagram in Afghanistan. So let’s review reality and examine the merit of that claim.
Yes the Biden admin absolutely deserves criticism for its execution at the end.
But the 2020 Doha agreement committed the U.S. to a full withdrawal. That means no presence & no bases. We had already drawn down from 13000 to 2500 troops by the time Biden took office.
At that point, keeping Bagram would’ve required reversing the withdrawal agreement, sending thousands of troops back in, and re-engaging in open conflict with the Taliban.
So sure criticize Biden for the messy finish. He deserves it. But the idea that we would still have Bagram today without reigniting the war is dumb revisionist history.
I look forward to hearing all the neocon arguments why we should’ve never left Afghanistan.
Because he is the reason we don’t have a permanent base at Bagram in Afghanistan. So let’s review reality and examine the merit of that claim.
Yes the Biden admin absolutely deserves criticism for its execution at the end.
But the 2020 Doha agreement committed the U.S. to a full withdrawal. That means no presence & no bases. We had already drawn down from 13000 to 2500 troops by the time Biden took office.
At that point, keeping Bagram would’ve required reversing the withdrawal agreement, sending thousands of troops back in, and re-engaging in open conflict with the Taliban.
So sure criticize Biden for the messy finish. He deserves it. But the idea that we would still have Bagram today without reigniting the war is dumb revisionist history.
I look forward to hearing all the neocon arguments why we should’ve never left Afghanistan.
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 12:31 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
No. The argument is Potatobrain did not insist on the Taliban meeting its conditions.
No it isn’t. The argument is that Biden is the reason we don’t have a permanent base in Afghanistan.
By the time Biden was in office, taking and defending Bagram would’ve meant sending troops back to Afghanistan. You would’ve fricking melted.
Also please remind me …you keep complaining about the trustworthiness of the Taliban. Who decided to bypass the Afghan govt to deal with the Taliban instead?
re: MAGA is angry at everyone except the person responsible
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 12:23 pm to AUJACK
quote:
Not denying a coup 1953, but the 1979 Iranian Revolution did not end in a democratically elected government.
That was the point man. We did that. Did you just not read that part?
quote:
Your boy, Obama sent pallets of cash which transferred a total of $1.7 billion in cash to Iran in 2016
That was mostly interest to settle a failed arms deal related to the ‘79 issue above & $1.7B is nothing at the scale of nations. That’s how diplomacy works. Iran has made more than that from lifted sanctions on oil and tolls over the course of this war.
quote:
It was about oil. Oil is a U.S. interest. Energy is a U.S. Interest. Get over it.
This is the most neocon argument of all neocon arguments. “Get over it” is not a point. You’re an idiot.
quote:
Saddam was a evil man and he was threat.
Defending this in 2026 is hilarious. This is a huge reason the war on terror was so protracted. He was a piece of shite, but creating a power vacuum made things worse. You can’t revise history.
quote:
This was a toothless agreement and the Iranians were not complying
Link to where the Iranians were not complying prior to the US blowing up our own agreement? I’ll wait :lol:
quote:
The Iranians never complied.
Yes they did.
I will now direct you to the post directly above yours.
quote:
The fact that this very conservative board centered in a very conservative part of the country has given this post (so far) 185 up votes to 277 down votes, does not bode well for the midterms.
Pull your head out Trump’s arse.
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 12:07 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
Anyone that claims that how the Biden administration executed the withdrawal from Afghanistan was somehow Trumps fault isn’t somebody to take seriously. That’s it.
Who made that argument?
Personally I’ve maintained that both of them fricked up plenty of things related to the exit, but there is no scenario where Bagram base is retained after Trump signs Doha & withdraws 10,000 troops leaving only 2000 left in the region.
Unless you are suggesting re-escalating the conflict. The fact that we controlled the base during the war has nothing to do with the fact that Trump signed an agreement to withdraw all troops + no provisions for maintaining a base as part of the treaty to end the war.
You’re just basically arguing that you didn’t like the Doha agreement.
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 10:55 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
I said multiple times I disagree with that decision. At least in the near term when we still had people and stuff to get out of there. We can debate whether Bagram should have been held and for how long.
We can also debate what other consequences there would have been with sending troops back to the region after withdrawing the majority of them.
This thread implies we would just have a permanent operational base at Bagram if Biden hadn’t been elected, which is utterly absurd.
Nearly 100 upvotes from folks with the memory of goldfish.
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 10:40 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
~2,500 troops remained in Afghanistan by the time Biden took office.
We controlled Bagram before the withdrawal started, and part of the agreement Trump negotiated and began executing was to withdraw all troops from the region.
Again, you’re either being disingenuous or your IQ is room temp.
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 10:24 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
So are you implying we’re at war with every country that we maintain an airbase in? Nice strawman argument but nobody is discussing whether we continued the war in Afghanistan.
Jesus fricking Christ. We were already at war. Complete withdrawal of troops was part of the agreement to end the war.
The options were to finish withdrawal or to send troops back in & back to square one. Y’all can’t actually be this retarded. Gotta be disingenuous.
re: MAGA is angry at everyone except the person responsible
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 10:20 am to loogaroo
quote:
Iran cheated and got busted.
What date did we trash our own agreement & what date did Iran stop following it?
I’ll wait.
re: MAGA is angry at everyone except the person responsible
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 10:18 am to AUJACK
quote:
JCPOA was a joke, it meant nothing to Iran and would not have stopped Iran from developing nuclear weapon grade materials.
Every objective party out there disagrees. This has already been discussed. Laid a path for future diplomacy and was working fine.
Great alternative Trump came up with here after undermining our own diplomacy… that whole chain of events looks fantastic for him in retrospect.
Another brilliant point from the new neocon wing of MAGA.
re: MAGA is angry at everyone except the person responsible
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 10:16 am to soonerinlOUisiana
quote:
duck-sucking
You got a lot of weird hobbies man.
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 9:55 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
The Taliban breeched the deal. Milley and Biden responded by running away. Trump made it crystal clear that would not have been his response.
So to be fair, your vote here was to continue the war. And this is what you would’ve also argued at the time.
I also noticed you keep ignoring anytime anyone questions the choice to go around the Afghan got and negotiate with the Taliban in the first place…
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 9:49 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
To believe this, you believe that despite all of the EO’s and Trump 1.0 that Biden instantly reversed, he was somehow helpless to do anything.
The fricking melt if Biden had torn up the Doha deal & opted to not withdraw from Afghanistan…
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 9:47 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
The Taliban tore up the deal. But to answer your question directly, Trump thought so.
Trump did not think we were keeping Bagram base. That was not a negotiated condition. Some of you don’t understand what complete withdrawal means.
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 9:46 am to Jbird
quote:
there is no obligation for the United States to withdraw troops if the Afghan parties are unable to reach agreement or if the Taliban show bad faith
You’re arguing that we shouldn’t have withdrawn & that negotiating with the Taliban instead of inviting the Afghan govt to the table was dumb.
One out of two ain’t bad.
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 9:45 am to Jbird
quote:
Don't leave?
This is what I mean by revisionist history.
I’d love to see proof anyone here making this argument was actually arguing to stay in Afghanistan …and not instead celebrating the Doga agreement with the Taliban.
re: MAGA is angry at everyone except the person responsible
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 9:41 am to AUJACK
Nice timeline. Here’s mine:
1953: The U.S. and U.K. help overthrow Iran’s democratically elected prime minister and restore the Shah’s dictatorship, leading to the 1979 Iranian Revolution.
1980s, part I: (Iran-Contra) Reagan administration secretly facilitates arms sales to Iran, uses proceeds to fund Contra rebels
1980s, part II: (Iran-Iraq war) The U.S. assists Saddam Hussein’s Iraq… empowering another future adversary.
1990: Gulf war
2003: 9/11 + The U.S. invades Iraq over alleged weapons of mass destruction that were never found, beginning a decade long war in the Middle East
2016 (JCPOA): The U.S. joins an international agreement with Iran which places strict, verifiable limits on Iran’s nuclear program… blocking any path to weapons development for as long as it is upheld.
2018: IAEA repeatedly verifies Iran’s compliance. BiBi visits Congress. the U.S. withdraws from the JCPOA following an administrative change and reimposes sanctions.
2019: Iran begins breaching the deal’s limits shortly after the U.S. turn.
2020: The U.S. kills Iranian General Soleimani in Baghdad, bringing the two countries to the brink of open war.
2026: BiBi calls Trump…
1953: The U.S. and U.K. help overthrow Iran’s democratically elected prime minister and restore the Shah’s dictatorship, leading to the 1979 Iranian Revolution.
1980s, part I: (Iran-Contra) Reagan administration secretly facilitates arms sales to Iran, uses proceeds to fund Contra rebels
1980s, part II: (Iran-Iraq war) The U.S. assists Saddam Hussein’s Iraq… empowering another future adversary.
1990: Gulf war
2003: 9/11 + The U.S. invades Iraq over alleged weapons of mass destruction that were never found, beginning a decade long war in the Middle East
2016 (JCPOA): The U.S. joins an international agreement with Iran which places strict, verifiable limits on Iran’s nuclear program… blocking any path to weapons development for as long as it is upheld.
2018: IAEA repeatedly verifies Iran’s compliance. BiBi visits Congress. the U.S. withdraws from the JCPOA following an administrative change and reimposes sanctions.
2019: Iran begins breaching the deal’s limits shortly after the U.S. turn.
2020: The U.S. kills Iranian General Soleimani in Baghdad, bringing the two countries to the brink of open war.
2026: BiBi calls Trump…
re: MAGA is angry at everyone except the person responsible
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 9:34 am to Smeg
quote:
Are you suggesting this is a bad thing? It would be your preference for us to choose to NOT maintain military dominance?
No buddy, that’s exactly the point lmfao.
Let’s see it in context:
quote:
Since I’m not a blowhard, I give Trump points for holding NATO members to account on defense spending.
However, most are at or near requirement now. Some NATO countries spend a higher % of their GDP than we do.
The US spends the most in total because we choose to maintain global military dominance, and that won’t change whether we are part of NATO or not.
Lmao.
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 9:25 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
You can claim that as many times as you like. it’s simply not true. If conditions of Doha were not met, the agreement was off.
The “agreement” was a peace treaty / result of negotiations to end the war :lol:
Idk how this needs explaining, but he is 100% correct that not withdrawing would’ve meant… not withdrawing.
Are the Taliban shitheads? Yes. And once again, this is probably why so many people were critical of negotiating with the Taliban and circumventing the Afghan govetnment.
Did the Biden admin bungle withdrawal execution? Yes. That has nothing to do with following through on a complete withdrawal.
This is the most revisionist history thread I’ve ever seen here.
re: How handy would Bagram Airbase be right now?
Posted by DeathByTossDive225 on 4/4/26 at 1:49 am to RollingwiththeTide
quote:
The deal would have been null and void at that point leaving the Trump free do whatever he wanted had he been elected in 2020. The Taliban was also supposed to start talks with the Afghan government at the time if I recall too which they never did obviously.
So you would’ve wanted Trump to send troops back in? Maybe this is why a lot of people argue the Afghans should’ve been the ones at the negotiating table with Trump and if any parties were to be left out it should’ve been the Taliban.
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