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Message
re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:25 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
they may expect an outcome but most of their information used to "process" is rumor, opinion and not factual. that, my friend is an emotional gut reaction to news the CONSIDER unfavorable. yes, they have some points to back their reaction but they are jumping off the cliff BEFORE their result happens or even comes near to happening.
quote:
negatigers are not rational at all. the rational reaction is one that remains calm and adopts a wait and see attitude. it can certainly involve expressing disappointment but not involve hesterics and espouses rumors as fact.
quote:
I also realize ( as so many others refuse to acknowledge) that I am only operating with a fraction of the information needed to analyze the actual facts. There are known unknowns and unknown unknowns , as it were. So realizing that, and not wanting to be a boorish a-hole, I choose to bite my tongue , keep my opinions ( mostly ) to myself, speak with a certain level of humility that acknowledges I have no control over any of this, and try to focus on the positives
These are excellent points from some of the replies on here. I agree with your overall characterization of emotional vs rational, but I think you have the groups backwards. I agree totally that LSU should have hired folks with better resumes, and I agree that this was all done very shoddily. But, we can only assume that SE cannot run LSU's offense as well as -say- Yurcich. We don't actually have data to support that. And since we as fans cannot change the hire, it seems the rational thing would be to take a wait and see approach and get the actual data.
That is not at all the same thing as thinking these are great moves.
1
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:25 am to SlowFlowPro
There are a ton of “question marks” every year . There were a ton of question marks heading into 2011 and the mood was mixed. You got banned in 2007 for saying “ Matt Flynn sucks more dick than Jenna Jameson”. You lost your shite ( you did) in the best of times. My point not that 2018 will be 2011 or 2007 ( it won’t ) but that through decades and decades of watching LSU football, you learn that the view in January and October are totally different, and that there is wisdom in taking the long view.
I think we agree the defense will likely be improved. I would bet you today that we are improved across the board statistically next year offensively in virtually every category. I think our mid- range passing will improve, I think we are more balanced, I think we score more, I think Edwards/Brosette/ Curry offer more than you acknowledge and I see two super- talented freshman receivers in the four deep. And the O line of course, goes from the shite show it was in September 2017 with six guys switching positions, to a likely eleven- deep of talented and experienced.
So we disagree. And while you and I agree that 2015/2016/2017 hiring ( and non- hiring) decisions were atrocious, I actually think from a depth standpoint and a cohesion standpoint, they have a good shot to get it together. And I think Ensminger ( although not my choice either) has a definite upside.
On a larger note , I think at any given time there are ten first rate coaches in CFB. We don’t have that . Understood. But part of being “ Rational “ is the ability to understand that you don’t always get what you want, that even the best laid plans fail, and that there is an element of serendipity and good fortune to all this .
The question for Tiger fans at this point, is what kind of atmosphere are we going to create for 2018 ? Is it going to be a constant barrage of negativity? If so, are you sure that achieves what you want it to ? And if you see Coach O as I do - which is the 3/4 year intermission between what was ( Les freakin Miles damn it ) and what is to come ( a hopefully genius hire? ) what point is there in just endlessly repeating these same relentlessly negative tropes ? It’s not to OUR best interest to cannibalize ourselves, especially when there is near- unanimity that we are somewhere in the middle of two distinctly separate eras of LSU football.
Imma enjoy basketball and baseball and meet you in September.
I think we agree the defense will likely be improved. I would bet you today that we are improved across the board statistically next year offensively in virtually every category. I think our mid- range passing will improve, I think we are more balanced, I think we score more, I think Edwards/Brosette/ Curry offer more than you acknowledge and I see two super- talented freshman receivers in the four deep. And the O line of course, goes from the shite show it was in September 2017 with six guys switching positions, to a likely eleven- deep of talented and experienced.
So we disagree. And while you and I agree that 2015/2016/2017 hiring ( and non- hiring) decisions were atrocious, I actually think from a depth standpoint and a cohesion standpoint, they have a good shot to get it together. And I think Ensminger ( although not my choice either) has a definite upside.
On a larger note , I think at any given time there are ten first rate coaches in CFB. We don’t have that . Understood. But part of being “ Rational “ is the ability to understand that you don’t always get what you want, that even the best laid plans fail, and that there is an element of serendipity and good fortune to all this .
The question for Tiger fans at this point, is what kind of atmosphere are we going to create for 2018 ? Is it going to be a constant barrage of negativity? If so, are you sure that achieves what you want it to ? And if you see Coach O as I do - which is the 3/4 year intermission between what was ( Les freakin Miles damn it ) and what is to come ( a hopefully genius hire? ) what point is there in just endlessly repeating these same relentlessly negative tropes ? It’s not to OUR best interest to cannibalize ourselves, especially when there is near- unanimity that we are somewhere in the middle of two distinctly separate eras of LSU football.
Imma enjoy basketball and baseball and meet you in September.
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 10:28 am
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:27 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
, yes that's my stance.
Well man I really hope you get your way
but reality tells me no chance
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:30 am to Lsupimp
Solid, solid post pimp 
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:31 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
Well man I really hope you get your way but reality tells me no chance
Is that what this is about? Getting your "way"? Well, if that's the case, then I stipulate that you win. Congratulations. O is the coach. Yay! Forgive me, however, for not thinking that the hole in the sand in which you have your head is comfortable. I'll just continue to think that it was a horrible hire and that the litany of bumbling moves that he's making are not good.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 10:37 am to TGFN57
quote:
A wall of text attempting to rationalize acting like a 12 year old that knows absolutely nothing about how real football works.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 12:36 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
You got banned in 2007 for saying “ Matt Flynn sucks more dick than Jenna Jameson”.
after our SECOND loss of the year
it took a legit miracle set of events to get into the title game
quote:
The question for Tiger fans at this point, is what kind of atmosphere are we going to create for 2018 ? Is it going to be a constant barrage of negativity?
i'll say this. the leash should be short for the coaching in 2018. very short
i'll give it a shot, but if we come out with major issues, the floodgates will be open
Posted on 1/12/18 at 11:15 pm to SlowFlowPro
Mother of God what a damn fine post. Bravo good sir....bravo
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:48 am to therick711
quote:They're talking mainly about OL. I don't care how much they improved during the course of the season. They went from "Bad" to "Mediocre." There's not SEC Championship level OL talent at LSU right now. I want to see what Cregg brings to the table in recruiting. Can't get much worse.................
I literally heard Jordy Culotta say "People in the building are telling us that there are systemic roster problems that cannot be solved during the season. People in the building are telling me that we will have to recruit our way out of it over the next few seasons. I believe Orgeron is the right man for the job because of his recruiting pedigree."
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:51 am to semjase
quote:
hey're talking mainly about OL. I don't care how much they improved during the course of the season. They went from "Bad" to "Mediocre." There's not SEC Championship level OL talent at LSU right now. I want to see what Cregg brings to the table in recruiting. Can't get much worse.................
So with that being said you’re not gonna be one of those guys that says if he doesn’t win 10 games then fired him. If your willing to admit there are issues that might take time then you can think like that.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 3:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This ties in strongly with the process-oriented v. results-oriented strategies that we can discuss later. To summarize, positigers are results-oriented and negatigers are process-oriented. There are strengths and weaknesses to both, but only a process-oriented decisionmaking tree along with a good plan and detailed execution will lead to long-term, consistent results. This is what Saban described as "the process" when he was coach here and it's what he's using at Alabama to create the greatest dynasty in the history of CFB. That's the only way we will compete with his programs consistently.
I hated you when you first started posting on this board. You grew up and I think that you are awesome now. Just saying.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 3:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You got banned in 2007 for saying “ Matt Flynn sucks more dick than Jenna Jameson”.
after our SECOND loss of the year
it took a legit miracle set of events to get into the title game
I don't think you should have been banned, but that was some bullshite.
quote:
it took a legit miracle set of events to get into the title game
Yeah, we backed into that game. Bama has 2 national championships without winning the West, much less the SEC Championship.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 4:54 am to doctatigah
quote:People with low EQ are typically unsuccessful. As much as you see Saban screaming and yelling, his EQ is high. His demand to perfection is even higher. His yelling is an outward effect HE CHOOSES to present to people with lower EQ to CAUSE an emotional response and motivate them ie he isn’t mad at all. He is constantly focusing on the process. The performer’s role is clear and he is able to “see” negative effects that behaviors will have on executing his process 5 steps before they will happen. He predicts and adjusts before the negative consequences better than anyone I’ve seen because of the way he prepares his team.
That’s a distinction without a difference. Talk to any nueroscientist and they’ll tell you: affect (i.e. emotion) and cognition (your “rationality”) are interlinked.
“Emotional thinking” is a perfectly normal form of “rationality” within the psychology literature.
You probably think we “see with our eyes too”.
So much I can say on this subject... a big part of my job in my latter years was to coach other execs...
Posted on 1/13/18 at 4:56 am to GoldenBoy
quote:
None of us have any idea what process Orgeron is implementing,
Clown Show.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 5:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Funny this is Nash was completely off his rocker when he developed the basis for those theories.
i'll give you an example of a setting where this also exists: game theory optimal strategy. w
Was it his “emotions” or maybe “logical” thinking that told him (and his wife) it was ok to not wear a seatbelt in a cab which crashed and killed both of them. He was conditioned that way because he likely never drove and was raised when seatbelts were not required. He behaved himself to death.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 5:30 am to LSU GrandDad
quote:
but depth was not achieved yet and that was evident when Lawrence and alexander and key were out. but, let's not nit pick over semantics; the fact is that this years team had some holes in it that prevented it challenging for the SEC.
Two narratives constantly being spewed... depth and injuries... NONE of you ever gave Miles that break AND he dealt with a FAR TOUGHER SCHEDULE through the time he was fired than Orgeron has had the last 1 3/4; years.
But let’s go there. Why the rebuild or the OLINE WHO WAS RANKED 1 in 2016? Could it possibly be the losses in the offseason after 2016 and not th depth? The starting sophomores like Weathersby and Clapp were coming back not to mention Malone and others. Orgeron ran off a starter from the 2016 to Southeastern because he didn’t pay attention to details in November 2016. He doesn’t pay attention to his students grades or their behaviors. See Sci Martin defection a guy HE RECRUITED AND WOULD HAVE AS DEPTH IN 2018 AS A MINIMUM.
The defections from the dline and Oline were HIS FAULT. Those were not guys going to the draft.
quote:
Troy. O probably handled the situation poorly but so did Canada. that was unfortunate to me as I thought canadas system would have worked much better in year two.
Troy was all on O. This is about being able to see the big picture and understand the complexity of an offense built to compete. It takes TIME to happen yet Canada constantly said that they were a work in progress and O felt the heat then made an emotional response prior to the Troy game which will ultimately cost him. Meddling 101. Too dumb to understand so he brings people down to his level of performance by meddling.
quote:
and don't act like 9-3 was a disasterous year.
It was 9-4 and pretty bad considering who the lost to and who they actually beat. AU was 10-4 and was their best win when Gus shite the bed.
Troy loss and bashing by MSU were embarrassing to say the least. In a down SEC, this team should have been 11-2 on the year at a minimum. ND was no where near the level of talent as this team and Orgeron lost that game.
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 5:55 am
Posted on 1/13/18 at 5:49 am to Lsupimp
quote:
And if you see Coach O as I do - which is the 3/4 year intermission between what was ( Les freakin Miles damn it ) and what is to come ( a hopefully genius hire? ) what point is there in just endlessly repeating these same relentlessly negative tropes ?
Shitty post on many levels, but this one really shows your “decades” of watching LSU football are only the last 2. My guess is you’re a millennial and MAYBE is old enough to remember Dinardo.
You haven’t a clue what it has been like being a fan since the 50’s and the emotional lift the 2000’s brought.
Where you, and many like you, are so shortsighted in thinking is hiring someone as unqualified as him as a stop-gap “3/4 years” will put s program so far back that it would take “decades and decades” to try to get back on track. People my age don’t have that long to wait. In all reality, unless you’re truly a blue blood of college football like Texas, tOSU, ND, SC or Bama your rebuild isn’t 3/4 years. (UGA iwasn’t a rebuild for example because they went from very good coach to very good coach). But I’ll give you one example that is in the SEC West - TAMU. They fired RC Slocum in 2002 AND STEVE ENSMINGER (in 96) and they are still dealing from it’s effects. Mack Brown at UT is similar but they actually hired someone worth waiting 3/4 years on to rebuild.
LSU will required DECADES to recover from this hire...
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 5:54 am
Posted on 1/13/18 at 5:56 am to I-59 Tiger
quote:
good points. However, at least on this board, a lot of posters who claim to be "rational" are not. We have an inordinate amount of Sabanistas that not only cannot get over that he left, but seethe at whats going on in Tuscaloosa. They will not let themselves enjoy any modicum of success by LSU. Any big win or high profile recruit is negated in their minds by the Troy game or for the most miserable SOBs here the 2005 Tennessee game. We have more miserable SOBs than most teams
Now,am I concerned? You're darn right. It was to my understanding Orgeron promised to get the hell out of the way of his assistants. Firing Canada and promoting a reluctant Ensminger doesn't conjure up visions of Bill Walsh's offenses.
But hoping a 9-4 team fails "for the good of the program's long haul" is stupid. Boycotting a 9-4 team is borderline idiocy.
"Both" sides would help their point if they could concede anything. The "O" positives could admit concerns about the offense and O's meddling. The "O" negatives could let themselves enjoy a big win like Auburn.
1000% spot on.
quote:
By no means on this forum are the "negatigers" actually "analyzing the current state of the program."
Especially this. They’re comparing it to and thinking that LSU should be shoulder to shoulder to Alabama at this point when they’re on an historic run lead by a once in a generation head coach. Then they act like LSU is the only school chasing the same program and trying to duplicate Alabama’s results and failing at doing so.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 6:15 am to yallallcrazy
quote:we have his resume that says he was fired and had shitty offenses at said fired schools like TAMU and Clemson.
But, we can only assume that SE cannot run LSU's offense as well as -say- Yurcich. We don't actually have data to support that.
We have data that said Canada beat the NC 2 years ago with an innovative offense. The reason it was “window dressing” was because it wasn’t fully implement ed because our ignoramous coach held onto assistants instead of letting his coordinator do the hiring.
fricking moron doesn’t understand the role of a CEO and isn’t smart enough to understand the complexities of an offense so he tried to bring it down to his dumb level.
Cameron had an issue with dumb QBs like Harris. He never “got it” but Miles and his mobile QB in an immobile system aka JJ love fest forced Cameron’s hand.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 6:19 am to Prominentwon
quote:as we should. You’re out of your mind if you don’t think Miles wasn’t very competitive in 5/6 of those games and should have won 3 of the games during their streak.
They’re comparing it to and thinking that LSU should be shoulder to shoulder to Alabama at this point when they’re on an historic run lead by a once in a generation head coach.
Walk away if you believe Bama is infallible.
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