Posted by
Message
Mo Jeaux
LSU Fan
NYC
Member since Aug 2008
33860 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

None of us have any idea what process Orgeron is implementing


He doesn’t have one. He flies by the seat of his pants. It’s why he’s not a good executive, but is a good motivator and interim coach.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
41
GoldenBoy
Georgia Fan
Winning!
Member since Nov 2004
38559 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
I think I understand what you're saying. The coordinator dependency approach is flawed, as seen last year.

I believe Orgeron wanted to hire Ensminger last year and when things went south with Canada, he had one clear choice who he wanted to replace him. Ensminger may do well, but the whole process is very confusing.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
355118 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Talk to any nueroscientist and they’ll tell you: affect (i.e. emotion) and cognition (your “rationality”) are interlinked.

this thread is about the methods of formulation, primarily between a set of binary choices (either we are implementing a strategy for elite results consistently or we're not. either we're imlpementingt hat strategy efficiently or we're not)

we're not making a decision among multiple variables like those studies analyze

quote:

“Emotional thinking” is a perfectly normal form of “rationality” within the psychology literature.

in the day to day world where emotions (due to social interaction) matter. when you're dealing with a strict strategical analysis removed from humanity, then emotions aren't nearly as important so that combination of the two is suboptimal. i'll give you an example of a setting where this also exists: game theory optimal strategy. w

quote:

Cute post, but it’s neither as scientific nor as brilliant as you thought.

this post is nowhere close to "brilliant"

it's dumbed down so CheeriOs can understand one of their common talking points are completely illogical and i'm trying to educate them to understand what they refuse to


BeeFense5
Chicago Cubs Fan
Kenner
Member since Jul 2010
29178 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Just like old times BAM out of nowhere Saban gets brought up and applied to anyone deemed “negative.”


I don't agree that everyone who is negative is doing it because of something Saban related, but I do think there is a segment of the fanbase that has such a romanticism for the Saban era that they haven't been able to enjoy LSU football since Christmas '04.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
91
I-59 Tiger
LSU Fan
Vestavia Hills, AL
Member since Sep 2003
30258 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Any big win? There was Auburn, who was a very hot and cold team. We barely squeaked out a Florida win, who in retrospect was a dumpster fire this year.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. A win over a team that defeated both teams in the National title game is now trivialized since Auburn was "hot and cold."


Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
56335 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Can you at least admit that what I was parroting for years was right about firing Miles and the possibility of getting worse in the process?



of course it's possible


LordoftheManor
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2006
7419 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Emotional reasoning is a cognitive process by which a person concludes that his/her emotional reaction proves something is true, regardless of the observed evidence...Emotional reasoning amplifies the effects of other cognitive distortions


Both sides are guilty of this. I'm a "realitiger", but I'm also not throwing my lot in with the people that are claiming that by hiring E we're winning 5 games next season.
This post was edited on 1/11 at 8:53 am


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
20
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
355118 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Can you at least admit that what I was parroting for years was right about firing Miles and the possibility of getting worse in the process?

that's always a risk, but we weren't elite anymore under miles and you have to take the risk to get on the path to elite status

Alleva made the wrong choice. one day we will look back and wonder how somebody could be so stupid and wrong, but it is what it is today

quote:

I was hated on so hard by you and others for even suggesting that LSU could end up like Texas and Tennessee after firing Mack and Phil.

that's not a reason to keep Les. that's a reason to make the right decision in replacing Les. that's the issue


BeeFense5
Chicago Cubs Fan
Kenner
Member since Jul 2010
29178 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

of course it's possible


You must not have been in those threads where I even mentioned it as a possibility of ending up like Texas/Tennessee and got absolutely murdered


Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
56335 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
I am sure I was and I probably countered with it's also possible we improve as a program...and also probably messed with you and said why do you have to be so negative


BeeFense5
Chicago Cubs Fan
Kenner
Member since Jul 2010
29178 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

that's a reason to make the right decision in replacing Les. that's the issue


Of course. But that's really where I was coming from. I didn't trust Alleva to make the right hire but people kept saying "you don't know what you are talking about, the boosters won't allow anyone to mess this up."

Alleva being Alleva then said "hold my beer"


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
61
BeeFense5
Chicago Cubs Fan
Kenner
Member since Jul 2010
29178 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

and also probably messed with you and said why do you have to be so negative


That absolutely happened


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
355118 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

We have an inordinate amount of Sabanistas that not only cannot get over that he left, but seethe at whats going on in Tuscaloosa. They will not let themselves enjoy any modicum of success by LSU.

no

they will enjoy success but we aren't a successful program anymore and haven't been since, basically, Saban took over Bama

we haven't won a natty since 2007 and have only won the SEC once since then. we haven't even made it to Atlanta except that one time

quote:

Any big win or high profile recruit is negated in their minds by the Troy game or for the most miserable SOBs here the 2005 Tennessee game.

here is the thing you miss. these are signals for the bigger picture

2005 UTenn showed me Miles' deficiencies and they remained the remainder of his career at LSU

2017 Troy likely does the same for O in his (hopefully short) tenure

quote:

Boycotting a 9-4 team is borderline idiocy.


that's just an expectations thing

if you want an elite program challenging for titles, 9-4 isn't acceptable

if you're OK with a mediocre big program scraping the bottom of the top 25 every year, that's fine


BlackHelicopterPilot
LSU Fan
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
43077 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
Wait:


You attribute the "negatigers" attitude to evaluating the circumstance and coming to a "negative" outcome prediction. You suggest that they are not "hoping" for bad outcomes.

Then you say the "positiger / CheeriOs" must be "hoping" for good outcomes.

Why is impossible (to you) for the positive ones to have simply evaluated the situation and come to the conclusion that GOOD outcomes are ahead? The opinions are equally valid. Each disagrees with the other. But both GOOD and BAD projections may me expected by different groups evaluating the same data. This is NOT mathematics.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
355118 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Canada isn't a ray of sunshine either. He doesn't stay at schools very long indicating that he has lofty expectations for himself and is a control freak. LSU made him the highest paid offensive coordinator in college football, he didn't live up to those expectations.

then that's a huge failure by O


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
70
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
355118 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Explain the change then from people who were negatigers and now positigers

cajuns

quote:

and vice versa

they've seen the light


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
50
I-59 Tiger
LSU Fan
Vestavia Hills, AL
Member since Sep 2003
30258 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

if you're OK with a mediocre big program scraping the bottom of the top 25 every year, that's fine


Yea,that's exactly what I said.

Sorry. Someone who refuses to allow themselves to enjoy a win and now beats their chest about not going to anymore games is not some "brilliant, rational fan."

I hope to be at Jerry World this fall for the Miami game. You and your minions can go to Lids and by Miami hats and pull for the Hurricanes.


therick711
Chicago Cubs Fan
South
Member since Jan 2008
21583 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. A win over a team that defeated both teams in the National title game is now trivialized since Auburn was "hot and cold."


But they were hot and cold. They dominated Georgia in one game, then got dominated in the other game. They lost to an LSU team that was itself nothing special. They lost to UCF and looked like they couldn't run the ball at all. On the other hand they made Bama look like they didn't belong and gained 168 yards on the ground.

Great win for LSU, but I still don't really know what to make of what Auburn did this year.
This post was edited on 1/11 at 9:10 am


BilJ
Kansas State Fan
DANGA ZONE
Member since Sep 2003
139966 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

program. However, what the positigers miss is that negatigers are actually analyzing the current state/direction of the program as being sub-optimal. Due to this analysis, they rationally assess the likelihood of a positive outcome being decreased. They are not HOPING for a negative outcome; they are EXPECTING a negative outcome. The positiger/CherriO factions have trouble understanding this mindset because they are subjectively and emotionally hoping (and praying, to quote O) for a positive season. You have created a biased view of the world where you see people "hoping" (emotional thnking) and not "analyzing" (rational thinking), and you confuse the two. Expecting a mediocre-bad season due to rational analysis is not the same thing as hoping for a bad season due to emotional desire.




Replies (0)
Replies (0)
20
GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
15823 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

There is a lot of confusion by the pro-Orgeron faction about what being a "negatiger" really means. I'm here to enlighten you all so hopefully you stop making the same logical errors when trying to make your points. the biggest distinction between the CheeriOs and the negas is based in the type of thinking being used.

Emotional reasoning is a cognitive process by which a person concludes that his/her emotional reaction proves something is true, regardless of the observed evidence...Emotional reasoning amplifies the effects of other cognitive distortions. For example, a test-taker may feel insecure about their understanding of the material even though they are perfectly capable of answering the questions. If he (or she) acts on his insecurity about failing the written test he might assume that he misunderstands the material and therefore might guess answers randomly, causing his own failure in a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Making a rational decision, on the other hand, involves making a decision, rationality factors in how much information is available (e.g. complete or incomplete knowledge). The process is the most important part of rational thinking. A sound conclusion (output) requires high-quality inputs (e.g., accurate information and access to the right people) and a high-quality thinking process. Focusing on the inputs is not enough to ensure success; we need to give equal attention to the process or what we do with the inputs—how we collect, organize, and analyze them.

People are labeled as "negatiger" because they are seen as desiring a negative outcome for the LSU program. However, what the positigers miss is that negatigers are actually analyzing the current state/direction of the program as being sub-optimal. Due to this analysis, they rationally assess the likelihood of a positive outcome being decreased. They are not HOPING for a negative outcome; they are EXPECTING a negative outcome. The positiger/CherriO factions have trouble understanding this mindset because they are subjectively and emotionally hoping (and praying, to quote O) for a positive season. You have created a biased view of the world where you see people "hoping" (emotional thnking) and not "analyzing" (rational thinking), and you confuse the two. Expecting a mediocre-bad season due to rational analysis is not the same thing as hoping for a bad season due to emotional desire.

This ties in strongly with the process-oriented v. results-oriented strategies that we can discuss later. To summarize, positigers are results-oriented and negatigers are process-oriented. There are strengths and weaknesses to both, but only a process-oriented decisionmaking tree along with a good plan and detailed execution will lead to long-term, consistent results. This is what Saban described as "the process" when he was coach here and it's what he's using at Alabama to create the greatest dynasty in the history of CFB. That's the only way we will compete with his programs consistently.


You're correct, of course...but there are FAR too many words, and many of them are multisyllabic so you're going to get drilled by most of the folks to whom you're addressing this.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
50
first pageprev pagePage 2 of 8next pagelast page

Back to top

logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram