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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
354891 posts

Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
There is a lot of confusion by the pro-Orgeron faction about what being a "negatiger" really means. I'm here to enlighten you all so hopefully you stop making the same logical errors when trying to make your points. the biggest distinction between the CheeriOs and the negas is based in the type of thinking being used.

Emotional reasoning is a cognitive process by which a person concludes that his/her emotional reaction proves something is true, regardless of the observed evidence...Emotional reasoning amplifies the effects of other cognitive distortions. For example, a test-taker may feel insecure about their understanding of the material even though they are perfectly capable of answering the questions. If he (or she) acts on his insecurity about failing the written test he might assume that he misunderstands the material and therefore might guess answers randomly, causing his own failure in a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Making a rational decision, on the other hand, involves making a decision, rationality factors in how much information is available (e.g. complete or incomplete knowledge). The process is the most important part of rational thinking. A sound conclusion (output) requires high-quality inputs (e.g., accurate information and access to the right people) and a high-quality thinking process. Focusing on the inputs is not enough to ensure success; we need to give equal attention to the process or what we do with the inputs—how we collect, organize, and analyze them.

People are labeled as "negatiger" because they are seen as desiring a negative outcome for the LSU program. However, what the positigers miss is that negatigers are actually analyzing the current state/direction of the program as being sub-optimal. Due to this analysis, they rationally assess the likelihood of a positive outcome being decreased. They are not HOPING for a negative outcome; they are EXPECTING a negative outcome. The positiger/CherriO factions have trouble understanding this mindset because they are subjectively and emotionally hoping (and praying, to quote O) for a positive season. You have created a biased view of the world where you see people "hoping" (emotional thnking) and not "analyzing" (rational thinking), and you confuse the two. Expecting a mediocre-bad season due to rational analysis is not the same thing as hoping for a bad season due to emotional desire.

This ties in strongly with the process-oriented v. results-oriented strategies that we can discuss later. To summarize, positigers are results-oriented and negatigers are process-oriented. There are strengths and weaknesses to both, but only a process-oriented decisionmaking tree along with a good plan and detailed execution will lead to long-term, consistent results. This is what Saban described as "the process" when he was coach here and it's what he's using at Alabama to create the greatest dynasty in the history of CFB. That's the only way we will compete with his programs consistently.


TenthTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2018
254 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
I will be there cheering my arse off every game because I want to win.

I also accept that its not the most likely thing in the world.


S
Texas Southern Fan
Evergreen, LA
Member since Jan 2007
91958 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
The Binder was supposed to be our answer to tProcess. Juuuuust a bit outside.
This post was edited on 1/11 at 8:32 am


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227
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
354891 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
i think the last game i saw in person was 2015 Auburn and i was still happy (because frick Auburn) even though i knew we weren't a good team at all


GoldenBoy
Georgia Fan
Winning!
Member since Nov 2004
38549 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
None of us have any idea what process Orgeron is implementing, which I admit is a problem. However, at the end of the day, results will prove whether it's working or not.


BeeFense5
Chicago Cubs Fan
Kenner
Member since Jul 2010
29069 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

None of us have any idea what process Orgeron is implementing


Utter Chaos


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127
TGFN57
LSU Fan
BR
Member since Jan 2010
2929 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
A wall of text attempting to rationalize acting like a 12 year old that knows absolutely nothing about how real football works.


doctatigah
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2016
123 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
tl;dr

That’s a distinction without a difference. Talk to any nueroscientist and they’ll tell you: affect (i.e. emotion) and cognition (your “rationality”) are interlinked.

“Emotional thinking” is a perfectly normal form of “rationality” within the psychology literature.

Cute post, but it’s neither as scientific nor as brilliant as you thought.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
354891 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

None of us have any idea what process Orgeron is implementing,

well he's had a year and a half and whatever slop he's attempting is not working

they tried to spin 2017 into a rebuild once we hit rough patches and that's a major flag. when you are hired to avoid a rebuild, sold yourself as the guy to give the program a slight tweak to become elite again, and then you IMMEDIATELY claim rebuilding status...that shows there is no plan (or the plan was so spectacularly bad, you have to spin reality 180 degrees to protect the plan)

and his overall coordinator-dependent pitch is already a failure because he completely failed at hiring an OC last year adn this year. that's not even debateable. he has absolutely failed at hiring the coordinators he desperately needs as an inadequate coach running the show


No Diggity Tiger
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2013
113 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
There is a clear distinction between supporting the LSU program even though you question the direction of the program and wishing failure towards the head coach because you didn't agree with the hire. The first is using rational, the second is entirely emotionally driven.

I'm not a CheeriO but I don't think anything concrete has happened to warrant being fired. Canada didn't do his job last year, he was fired. If O doesn't improve this year with Ensminger running the offense, both will likely be gone.

Nevermind, burn it all to the ground!!!!!! So much easier!


c on z
New York Yankees Fan
Saints Eagles Pels Heat Yanks Bron
Member since Mar 2009
105053 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Canada didn't do his job last year

How in the world is this proven when he did not have a chance to run his offense for a full season without O meddling?
This post was edited on 1/11 at 8:42 am


Tiger0610
Member since Oct 2016
86 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
You’re gonna get a lot of TLDR posts from the illiterate cheeriOs

Top notch post though!


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114
BeeFense5
Chicago Cubs Fan
Kenner
Member since Jul 2010
29069 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

SlowFlowPro


Can you at least admit that what I was parroting for years was right about firing Miles and the possibility of getting worse in the process?

I was hated on so hard by you and others for even suggesting that LSU could end up like Texas and Tennessee after firing Mack and Phil.

It wasn't even an argument that we should have not fired Miles. It was telling people who said Miles was the only one holding LSU back that it COULD get worse. No one would listen.


I-59 Tiger
LSU Fan
Vestavia Hills, AL
Member since Sep 2003
30238 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
good points. However, at least on this board, a lot of posters who claim to be "rational" are not. We have an inordinate amount of Sabanistas that not only cannot get over that he left, but seethe at whats going on in Tuscaloosa. They will not let themselves enjoy any modicum of success by LSU. Any big win or high profile recruit is negated in their minds by the Troy game or for the most miserable SOBs here the 2005 Tennessee game.By no means on this forum are the "negatigers" actually "analyzing the current state of the program." We have more miserable SOBs than most teams

Now,am I concerned? You're darn right. It was to my understanding Orgeron promised to get the hell out of the way of his assistants. Firing Canada and promoting a reluctant Ensminger doesn't conjure up visions of Bill Walsh's offenses.

But hoping a 9-4 team fails "for the good of the program's long haul" is stupid. Boycotting a 9-4 team is borderline idiocy.

"Both" sides would help their point if they could concede anything. The "O" positives could admit concerns about the offense and O's meddling. The "O" negatives could let themselves enjoy a big win like Auburn.
This post was edited on 1/11 at 8:48 am


No Diggity Tiger
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2013
113 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
I'm not speculating on whether or not he was the right hire based on LSUs personnel, or if O meddling in the offense caused him to not be effective. I understand that both of those are likely reasons for his failure. Canada isn't a ray of sunshine either. He doesn't stay at schools very long indicating that he has lofty expectations for himself and is a control freak. LSU made him the highest paid offensive coordinator in college football, he didn't live up to those expectations.


Mo Jeaux
LSU Fan
NYC
Member since Aug 2008
33777 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Any big win or high profile recruit is negated in their minds by the Troy game


Any big win? There was Auburn, who was a very hot and cold team. We barely squeaked out a Florida win, who in retrospect was a dumpster fire this year.


S
Texas Southern Fan
Evergreen, LA
Member since Jan 2007
91958 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
Just like old times BAM out of nowhere Saban gets brought up and applied to anyone deemed “negative.”


Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
56294 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

People are labeled as "negatiger" because they are seen as desiring a negative outcome for the LSU program. However, what the positigers miss is that negatigers are actually analyzing the current state/direction of the program as being sub-optimal. Due to this analysis, they rationally assess the likelihood of a positive outcome being decreased. They are not HOPING for a negative outcome; they are EXPECTING a negative outcome. The positiger/CherriO factions have trouble understanding this mindset because they are subjectively and emotionally hoping (and praying, to quote O) for a positive season. You have created a biased view of the world where you see people "hoping" (emotional thnking) and not "analyzing" (rational thinking), and you confuse the two. Expecting a mediocre-bad season due to rational analysis is not the same thing as hoping for a bad season due to emotional desire.


Melting over the possibility of something happening is irrational...and the bias works both ways. When people are biased against something they will oppose it no matter what logic tells them.

quote:

positigers are results-oriented and negatigers are process-oriented.


Explain the change then from people who were negatigers and now positigers and vice versa


S
Texas Southern Fan
Evergreen, LA
Member since Jan 2007
91958 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
You can thank Joe the schmo for being right.


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No Diggity Tiger
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2013
113 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
Who would have known that LSU football therapy was happening on the rant this morning....

Couldn't agree more though.


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