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c on z
New York Yankees Fan
My dream team
Member since Mar 2009
107814 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. A win over a team that defeated both teams in the National title game is now trivialized since Auburn was "hot and cold."



It's essentially the truth. Just 5 years ago winning 10 games around here used to not be enough, even when someone like myself would point out the signature wins (wins that were actually better than beating some 4 loss team). I at least had hopes that the majority of the fanbase would keep the general high expectations for the program in the event we had to replace Miles. These days it truly pisses me off when people point out to games like the Auburn game when by the end of the day, based on what is going on around the program, there's hardly much of anything pointing to a positive future.


I-59 Tiger
LSU Fan
Vestavia Hills, AL
Member since Sep 2003
30698 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

But they were hot and cold. They dominated Georgia in one game, then got dominated in the other game. They lost to an LSU team that was itself nothing special. The lost to UCF and looked like they couldn't run the ball at all. On the other hand they made Bama look like they didn't belong and gained 168 yards on the ground.


quote:

Great win for LSU, but I still don't really know what to make of what Auburn did this year


Okay. But my point was these "super fans" like Mo Jeaux for even one afternoon couldn't enjoy a win over a team that whether the O negatives like or not, was #2 in the CFP poll at one time --after losing to us.

That's the thing I don't understand. Have all the concerns about the program you want. But on the day something good happens just enjoy it instead of being a miserable bastard.

Not that hard.


Salviati
Virginia Fan
Member since Apr 2006
2901 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

You attribute the "negatigers" attitude to evaluating the circumstance and coming to a "negative" outcome prediction. You suggest that they are not "hoping" for bad outcomes.

Then you say the "positiger / CheeriOs" must be "hoping" for good outcomes.

Why is impossible (to you) for the positive ones to have simply evaluated the situation and come to the conclusion that GOOD outcomes are ahead? The opinions are equally valid. Each disagrees with the other. But both GOOD and BAD projections may me expected by different groups evaluating the same data. This is NOT mathematics.
It's worse than that.

He simply ascribes emotional thinking (BAD THOUGHT PROCESS) to his opposition, and bestows the title of rational thinkers (GOOD THOUGHT PROCESS) on himself and his allies.

There is zero actual analysis as to the actual arguments raised by each group and why each group gets its thought process description. Moreover, there is zero analysis as to the merits of each side's argument.

It's elementary ad hominem under the guise of analysis.


GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
16871 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Can you at least admit that what I was parroting for years was right about firing Miles and the possibility of getting worse in the process?

I was hated on so hard by you and others for even suggesting that LSU could end up like Texas and Tennessee after firing Mack and Phil.

It wasn't even an argument that we should have not fired Miles. It was telling people who said Miles was the only one holding LSU back that it COULD get worse. No one would listen.


Said the same...MANY times. And like you, I was ready for Les to go by the end. It was always the fear that knowing the powrrs that are currently in control at LSU we'd almost certainly do worse. Not because we HAD TO, but because given who we had making decisions it was the most likely outcome.


therick711
Chicago Cubs Fan
South
Member since Jan 2008
21954 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

wins that were actually better than beating some 4 loss team


Let's pump the brakes on that. They had to play Georgia twice. Otherwise, we're talking about at worse a 3 loss team. Auburn has a weird season. They lost the more important game, not unlike LSU in 2011. The record shows 1-1, but only one of the games truly mattered.


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
359324 posts
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re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Why is impossible (to you) for the positive ones to have simply evaluated the situation and come to the conclusion that GOOD outcomes are ahead?


that's theoretically possible but likely requires a severe lack of logic in my eyes lol

quote:

This is NOT mathematics.

strategy is logic-based. that involves a lot of math, especially when you're getting into game theory optimal strategical assessments/actions


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31
LSUStar
LSU Fan
Medellin
Member since Sep 2009
2824 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

However, what the positigers miss is that negatigers are actually analyzing the current state/direction of the program as being sub-optimal.


SlowFlowPro, LSU football cannot see 'sub-optimal' from its current position. It has miles to go before it reaches sub-optimal. It is on the precipice of becoming a dumpster fire...Process over results every time. It's about process.


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BilJ
Kansas State Fan
DANGA ZONE
Member since Sep 2003
142324 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:


I think I understand what you're saying. The coordinator dependency approach is flawed, as seen last year.



The CEO model can work but the guy at the top has to be a capable and organized CEO. The O regime appears to be one of chaos and disorder. O appears to be pretty reactionary and has no clear vision for what he wants, at least on a consistet basis. Now some could say that’s just our perception, but when he’s showing many of the same weaknesses he displayed the last time he ran a program, its a relatively safe conclusion. He hasn’t displayed the “changed man” characteristics he built himself up as.

He did the dance to get the job, now he’s back to old ways hoping for different results because this is a better program than Ole Miss
This post was edited on 1/11 at 9:15 am


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
359324 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Yea,that's exactly what I said.


"you" was general there. not YOU, i-59 tiger


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therick711
Chicago Cubs Fan
South
Member since Jan 2008
21954 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Okay. But my point was these "super fans" like Mo Jeaux for even one afternoon couldn't enjoy a win over a team that whether the O negatives like or not, was #2 in the CFP poll at one time --after losing to us.


I understand what you're saying, but the chronology doesn't support that. When LSU beat Auburn, they fell to 5-2 and blew a three touchdown lead. They didn't look like what their perception became after they shit-kicked Geogia. That's why the hot and cold thing makes sense. Auburn looked rough at that moment in time. In the same way, LSU looked like they could finish last in the SEC based on what State did to them.


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
359324 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

There is zero actual analysis as to the actual arguments raised by each group

oh i can give you arguments

i did this at length last year when O was hired about how the hire is just not going to work

it's from O as a coach to his history to his coordinator-dependent strategy. many of those things have already shown themselves


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
359324 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

The O regime appears to be one of chaos and disorder. O appears to be pretty reactionary and has no clear vision for what he wants, at least on a consistet basis. Now some could say that’s just our perception,

like you asked the other day, how many offensive styles has he promoted as HC? it's not just perception


Goldrush25
Washington Fan
San Diego, CA
Member since Oct 2012
21518 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
Easy way to filter out the emotional thinkers is noticing who can't express a thought without attacking someone or using expletives/insults. Dead giveaway.


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therick711
Chicago Cubs Fan
South
Member since Jan 2008
21954 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

Can you at least admit that what I was parroting for years was right about firing Miles and the possibility of getting worse in the process?


If the goal is to win championships, and you are moving in the wrong direction, you have to make a change. You can't know what impact the change would make (except if you do something really dumb like we did), but preserving the status quo because you're afraid to try and win it all is self-defeating and stupid.

Les was told that ugly football wouldn't be enough. He begged for his job until he got a reprieve from FKA. Once he won the power struggle, he gave everyone a giant frick you with his horse shite against Wisconsin. The guy earned the boot he got. We might have gotten worse, but he wasn't committed to a different vision so he had to go.


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50
tiger nutz
LSU Fan
Madison
Member since Oct 2005
543 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
We can't assume we will be terrible just because of a hire. That is dumb!! Look coach O did his job last year when he hired 2 of the best coordinators in the country. While no one is positive what went on between coach O and Canada we do know it didn't work well so it was terminated. Now coach O has gone a different direction with the hiring of the new OC which a lot of fans disagree with but at least lets wait to see the product before we make judgment. Coach O knows his job is depending on this hire and if he thinks Ensminger is the guy then he has a ton of confidence in him. If this doesn't work out then both of them will be terminated. It's not the end of the world. I actually think we will surprise some folks on offense and go to a pass first offense to open up the run this year. I predict we go 9-3!


TigerFanNKaty
LSU Fan
texas
Member since Sep 2008
8765 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
In other words none of us actually think rationally when it comes to LSU fandom. LOL


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Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
57336 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

That absolutely happened


All in good fun


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Lakeboy7
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
16389 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

A wall of text attempting to rationalize acting like a 12 year old that knows absolutely nothing about how real football works.






Its a process man


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21
therick711
Chicago Cubs Fan
South
Member since Jan 2008
21954 posts

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
quote:

The CEO model can work but the guy at the top has to be a capable and organized CEO.


I would argue that in the arms race era, an announced CEO strategy cannot work. You see what our adversaries are doing to us on that.


boxcar willie
LSU Fan
kenner
Member since Mar 2011
11228 posts
 Online 

re: Rational v. Emotional thinking: the posi-nega distinction
Interesting post however most rational people are a mixture of emotions and can't be catorgorizd so simply as be a nega or posi or cheerio-o or Cheeri-no or realist etc.


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