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Posted on 1/2/18 at 1:26 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
It was insanity to fire Les to hire O, period.
Yep, it made potential suitors think twice. " Yeah, she's hot as balls, but she's a real psycho."
Posted on 1/2/18 at 1:28 pm to frankenfish
Did Fisher or Herman ever say no?
LSU simply did not want to pay. Yet here we are 1 year layer shelling out 3 million for a coordinator.
LSU simply did not want to pay. Yet here we are 1 year layer shelling out 3 million for a coordinator.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 1:29 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
It was insanity to fire Les to hire O, period.
I don't think that was the plan, assuming there was in fact any sort of plan at all. Les needed to be fired. Few disagree with that. Things started going off the rails when we failed to put together a real search for coaching candidates when given a 2 month head start on the rest of the field.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 1:39 pm to frankenfish
quote:
is Mullen with no Aranda better than O with Aranda?
Yes
Posted on 1/2/18 at 1:40 pm to Tigercowboy
quote:
I don't think Aleva had an accual list past Herman and Jimbo but anyone would have been better. We needed a culture change.
My guess would be that's correct. It was likely Herman/Jimbo and unless some other "home run hire" emerged O was the fall back.
I wasn't for the hire, but accepted it and supported it once it was a done deal in the hope it would work out. The problem I see right now is that as a coach that knows his job is on a perpetual hot seat he is likely unwilling to take chances which probably led to the falling out with Canada. I can also see him as having some esteem issues knowing his track record and some of his old tendencies are starting to bleed through.
None of this bodes well for the future. Hope I'm wrong and all the pieces come together and 2018 is a great season. I'll continue to support the HC, but he's making it damn hard.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 1:41 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:/thread
Literally anyone else
Posted on 1/2/18 at 1:49 pm to SulphursFinest
quote:I think most would have come. I'm sure either Herman or Jimbo were leveraging us, but they too would have come if we'd have made it attractive enough.
None of the above were coming to LSU
The rest absolutely would have come, and I'd have been happy with Mullen and Aranda running the ship. I also would have enjoyed someone like Franklin or Dabo, but you can't take a guy away from an easier road to the championship unless you give them a record breaking contract.
Aside from that, any other coach would have taken the job, and every one of them would have been a better choice.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 1:52 pm to frankenfish
quote:
Who do you think LSU should have hired instead, after Herman and Fisher said no?
God dammit I'm so sick and tired of this dishonest question being asked by presumably intelligent people.
And I'm tired of it because even if we were some how tied into high end coaching circles the name/s we'd provide would not make you say, "Oh...yeah, that would have been better" as there would be some speculative reason for why that guy would not have worked out.
But none of that is the point. I want to see the giant white board used by Alleva on his "search" to see WHY Edward Orgeron's name was 3rd from the fricking top. Because I can't think of another single AD in all of America that would have had him there.
This isn't that hard. Even BEFORE you fired Miles after AU in 2016, you'd think Alleva would have had the beginnings of said board in place in his office with a big sheet over it, right? The board would have consisted of EVERY COACH of FOOTBALL in AMERICA from top to bottom in theory. You'd have made your wish list from top to bottom from A to Z regardless of the chances you could land them. So the list would start with Belechick, then Saban, then etc, etc... You simply start at the best and then work down. when you're done, or your hand gets tired, you go back to the top of the list and start scratching out names that make no sense at all. As soon as you start getting to names that are long shots but MAYBE possible, your actual list starts.
Now...here's the important part. Between whoever that was (Maybe it really was Jimbo at the top of the best possible who were also getable) and Edward Orgeron, just HOW MANY NAMES do you think would there be? Between a guy with multiple conference championships, a Natty and a Hesiman winning QB and the guy who was your current/former DL coach with no coordinating experience in his entire career, with no legit offers anywhere with a career HC record well below .500?
The real answer to your question, one we'll never know because our AD made no attempt at finding out, lies somewhere between Jimbo Fisher and Ed Orgeron in a list of what must be 100+ coaches across the NFL, NCAA in both HC and assistant positions. There was a VAST candidate pool, and after we missed on our first two options we decided to just take the pool boy's idiot uncle and call it a fricking day, and then hope PR spin would make the fan base think we got a steal. frick all that.
Or another way of saying it...what possible argument could be made for why we were in a position to have to hire a guy with a sub .500 career record at LSU when our top 2 candidates did not pan out? We went from a guy with a title, to a big name up and comer...to a guy no one fricking wanted? WHY???
Posted on 1/2/18 at 1:56 pm to SulphursFinest
Morons always say this after people
Provide s list of who they would have went after. See you don’t know because we never went after anyone past Jimbo and Herman. So stfu sulphurs
Worst
Provide s list of who they would have went after. See you don’t know because we never went after anyone past Jimbo and Herman. So stfu sulphurs
Worst
Posted on 1/2/18 at 1:59 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
And I'm tired of it because even if we were some how tied into high end coaching circles the name/s we'd provide would not make you say, "Oh...yeah, that would have been better" as there would be some speculative reason for why that guy would not have worked out
That's why these threads are a waste of time.
No matter who we say, the answers are either "he wouldn't come here" or "look at his record this year, O's better."
This post was edited on 1/2/18 at 2:00 pm
Posted on 1/2/18 at 2:00 pm to Goldrush25
Bingo. Exactly what I Stated also.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 2:06 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
98% of the fan base trashed the thought of Mullen becoming our next head coach last year.
What a difference a year makes
But not the people who hated the hire from the start. Out of the really long O threads early on, those saying it was a bad decision would almost always list Mullen in a Top 5 or Top 10 other options.
So although your frustration might be with them, that group has been pretty consistent.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 2:09 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
No matter who we say, the answers are either "he wouldn't come here" or "look at his record this year, O's better."
Of course.
But as I've been harping in, it isn't even the right question. It assumes that Orgeron WAS the nest/only real option in the 33 spot and anyone that does not see that is an idiot.
Except, that's fricking nonsense. Hell, it would have been nonsense had some Sunbelt team hired a coach like that, let alone LSU. We had the money, the talent, the recruiting base, the current roster of NFL talent to be tempting to future recruits, recent success, etc. All it would have taken was the desire to look and the ability to potentially be told NO by a few guys for whom the job, based on whatever reasons they had personally, would not make sense for them.
But real soon after Fisher and Herman on that board you'd hit a guy with success as either an ACTUAL head coach or a guy everyone agreed was an up and comer as a coordinator and you take your shot.
And let's be VERY honest. Aside form maybe 2 guys currently coaching college ball, I can really say with certainty that ANYONE would AUTOMATICALLY succeed anywhere. It's always a crap shoot...which is why you hedge your bets and hire the very best resume possible. You don't hire the worst and bank on him having changed.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 2:11 pm to GeauxTigerTM
I certainly didn't intend it as a dishonest question but I do appreciate your assumption of my intelligence. 
I hate to say this as it come across as a defense of Alleva and that certainly isn't my position. This article from the Hayride is pretty damn spot on IMO.
But the facts on the ground at-the-time were that the consensus best hires would have been Fisher or Herman and no clear cut consensus #3. Into that picture emerged Coach O who promised three things:
-Keep Aranda on staff
-Bring Kiffin (I heard a report, I can't recall where, that Kiffin spoke to Alleva and said he was coming) and
-Take less salary to bring in these coordinators.
So in that light I can understand Alleva doing what he did. But the fact that it devolved to that (and the reasons in the link above) are why Alleva needs to go, even though I can see the logic in his decision.
So for those who say O should have never been hired I'm asking what would have rationally been a better decision. Hiring O might prove to be the incorrect decision but at that time I don't see one that was more rational.
I hate to say this as it come across as a defense of Alleva and that certainly isn't my position. This article from the Hayride is pretty damn spot on IMO.
But the facts on the ground at-the-time were that the consensus best hires would have been Fisher or Herman and no clear cut consensus #3. Into that picture emerged Coach O who promised three things:
-Keep Aranda on staff
-Bring Kiffin (I heard a report, I can't recall where, that Kiffin spoke to Alleva and said he was coming) and
-Take less salary to bring in these coordinators.
So in that light I can understand Alleva doing what he did. But the fact that it devolved to that (and the reasons in the link above) are why Alleva needs to go, even though I can see the logic in his decision.
So for those who say O should have never been hired I'm asking what would have rationally been a better decision. Hiring O might prove to be the incorrect decision but at that time I don't see one that was more rational.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 2:13 pm to frankenfish
quote:
Mullen
I wanted him before the Jimbo fiasco, and I wanted him before the Herman fiasco.
Anybody that can win at MSST and get them to a #1 ranking is good with me. Also, he is one of the GOAT QB whisperers.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 2:14 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
with no legit offers anywhere with a career HC record well below .500?
.286 was his win % at ole miss.
.125 was his sec win % at ole miss
Posted on 1/2/18 at 2:21 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Or another way of saying it...what possible argument could be made for why we were in a position to have to hire a guy with a sub .500 career record at LSU when our top 2 candidates did not pan out? We went from a guy with a title, to a big name up and comer...to a guy no one fricking wanted? WHY???
because Alleva doesnt care about winning titles. why should he. lsu football is fricking rolling in cash without titles and he knows we won't stop coming to the games.
An AD cant say he is committed to winning titles and then hire a 55 year old career dline coach that has never in his life proven he can run a successful side of the ball, let alone a successful program.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 2:25 pm to memphis tiger
quote:
The fact is, Alleva had almost an entire season to find, vet and hire a competent head coach. And after his first 2 choices didn’t drop down and kiss his arse, he said “frick it, I’ve got a d line coach who wants it”.
He said “I am the search” and didn't even search beyond choices A,B and last resort.
All of this. Plus, add to it that it was an ego power play between Alleva and Herman/Fisher. He was embarrassed when both came back with much higher numbers than he was willing to pay. I guess Alleva understated the frick out of how much it was going to cost to bring in a new coach, to the higher ups.
So what does he do? Like you said, "I'll show you!" He lazily hires Orgeron and makes it look like that was an option all along. He even so much as to copy and paste the contract of the would be new coach, and deletes out Fisher/Herman and replaces with Orgeron. A ridiculous buyout, ridiculous salary. Unreal.
Before anybody else is fired/hired - Alleva needs to go. It's time for somebody else.
Posted on 1/2/18 at 2:33 pm to MountainTiger
quote:
I don't think that was the plan
Then the plan was horrible.
quote:
assuming there was in fact any sort of plan at all.
Then they should have had a plan.
Do you want to frick up a good thing? Because this is how you frick up a good thing.
Now that it's done, you HAVE to give O 3 or 4 years. Period. You don't have to like it, but if you don't want to compound one terrible error with another, you just have to live with O through 2018, 2019 and probably 2020.
Hell, he might pull it off.
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