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re: Will you get the Ford electric truck?
Posted on 5/20/21 at 11:05 pm to AndyCBR
Posted on 5/20/21 at 11:05 pm to AndyCBR
quote:
That car had more range than a horse at the time my "great gran pappy" was making that choice. The EV's don't even compare to modern ICE vehicles when it comes to range. That is a stupid comparison.
There were no gas stations when the first cars were built. So you were shite out look on the range. There was grass and hay available everywhere for your horse
1
Posted on 5/21/21 at 12:01 am to weadjust
quote:
There were no gas stations when the first cars were built. So you were shite out look on the range. There was grass and hay available everywhere for your horse
We're not comparing the first ever ICE vehicle (which was actually an 1806 riverboat run by coal dust and moss spores) with the first ever electric vehicle.
Your grasping at straws in a feeble effort to make a moot point.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 12:07 am to AndyCBR
A lot of car manufacturers are stopping their ICE development. We are probably decades away from ICE not being sold, but the writing is on the wall for them.
Long range trucking is a different story. That will all come down to battery technology.
Long range trucking is a different story. That will all come down to battery technology.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 12:28 am to fightin tigers
quote:
A lot of car manufacturers are stopping their ICE development. We are probably decades away from ICE not being sold, but the writing is on the wall for them.
Long range trucking is a different story. That will all come down to battery technology.
I don't believe this for a second.
There have been some recent ICE advancements (namely Toyota's dynamic force engine in 2018 with 40% brake thermal efficiency).
The reason there is not that much ICE development is the technology has reached the limit of current materials. Newer materials may change that (ceramics, composites, etc.). Keep in mind all development comes at a price of making it commercially viable. At this, ICE is king.
Keep in mind, cars are disposable.
Will EV's become part of the market? Of course, but they are still not applicable in some markets. The manufacturers also have no control over the aging grid infrastructure which would have to be dramatically improved to support EV's as a significant percentage of the cars on the road.
This huge push to use EV battery technology is actually a step backward for environmental responsibility. Just because an EV doesn't "burn fuel" doesn't make it "clean". I can assure you the diesel equipment that mines the lithium and the coal burning power plant that keeps the grid live in the middle of the night charging EV's surely burn fuel.
To speculate that long range trucks will burn anything but diesel in the near future is about as ridiculous as proposing a solar powered jet aircraft.
I know it's super cool to jump on the bandwagon and say ICE is dead and EV's are the future but you really need to look at the application first.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 12:48 am to AndyCBR
EV ownership has outpaced even the boldest predictions.
As stated, I don't think long range trucks are close to going all electric.
Switch to EVs won't be a green decision for a lot of people.
As stated, I don't think long range trucks are close to going all electric.
Switch to EVs won't be a green decision for a lot of people.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 1:07 am to fightin tigers
quote:
As stated, I don't think long range trucks are close to going all electric.
While I agree it will be behind passenger vehicles the advantage it will have is when they can go fully autonomous. This lowers the range requirement and recharging speed to still be able to outpace a single driver OTR truck given they could run/charge 24 hours a day constantly. They also have an advantage of using traffic conditions to their advantage over a human-driven truck. Let's say the autonomous EV is running east in I-80 and is going to hit bad traffic in Chicago. It could stop in say Joliet and recharge while the traffic dies down and then run through Chicago at speed. A human can stop the same way but those short sleep/driving cycles take a toll on a human but has no impact on an autonomous truck.
Autonomous EV OTR trucks will increase the speed and probably significantly reduce the cost of freight transfer. Plus I expect the Cd to drop significantly when there are no drivers/owners to object to non-traditional looking trucks.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 1:15 am to fightin tigers
quote:
EV ownership has outpaced even the boldest predictions.
Not true when you take Hybrids (a primarily ICE system) out of the equation.
quote:
As stated, I don't think long range trucks are close to going all electric.
No, you stated it would depend on battery technology. I posit there will likely never be long range trucks powered by batteries alone.
quote:
Switch to EVs won't be a green decision for a lot of people.
Well then what are they basing it on? They cost way more upfront and have less range. Is it the federal subsidies? Virtue signaling? Perceived large fuel cost savings?
Posted on 5/21/21 at 1:20 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:You seem to be under the impression that everyone else is just like you.
When you can’t drive it long distance on vacation or in an emergency it is. It’s useless. Let’s say you have to evacuate and it’s all you have, or there’s a family emergency that requires you drive long distances to help a friend or family member. You are screwed. It’s not practical, and it’s non functioning other than much shorter distances, so I wouldn’t want to rely upon that
Posted on 5/21/21 at 1:42 am to Darth_Vader
quote:Because it is.
How did so many people come to the insanely stupid idea that it’s somehow better for the environment if we all switch to electric vehicles?
quote:Yes, pretty much all infinitely recyclable materials.
Do these people not know what’s required to make just one of these batteries?
quote:"Spent" car batteries will still have 70+% capacity left, these can be repurposed as home energy storage. When they are no longer useful for this purpose, they can be recycled.
And they don’t last forever. They’ll have to be disposed of and replaced at some point.
quote:Yes, but over time less of the material will be sourced from mines and more will be recycled.
There will have to be millions for these batteries produced yearly going forward.
quote:Yes we do, most charging happens during off-peak hours, so we will smooth out the current peak-trough cycle. We can even take this further once there are more EVs. It would not be too challenging to have an optional grid-mode for EVs where their main objective while plugged in is to help alleviate demand from the power plant.
Then there’s the issue of the massive increase of electric power generation that will be required to keep all these electric vehicles charged. Where’s that power going to come from? We don’t have near the capacity to generate enough electricity.
quote:Step 1 is to actually want to understand.
Someone help me understand the “logic” behind this whole electric car push.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 1:51 am to Korkstand
Guys that tow their boat to the lake are going to have fun recharging.
Chargers are generally set up a bit differently than gas pumps.
ie-They'll be unhooking their trailers at standard chargers.
EV's will gain more of the market for sure, but oil production cannot just disappear (plastics/chemicals anyone?) which means there will be gas. Eliminating IC engines won't happen anytime soon. And Mary Barra is dumb to have GM on that path.
Chargers are generally set up a bit differently than gas pumps.
ie-They'll be unhooking their trailers at standard chargers.
EV's will gain more of the market for sure, but oil production cannot just disappear (plastics/chemicals anyone?) which means there will be gas. Eliminating IC engines won't happen anytime soon. And Mary Barra is dumb to have GM on that path.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 1:55 am to Korkstand
quote:
Step 1 is to actually want to understand.
I once was adamantly against EV's for so many reasons. My TD post history would probably reflect that.
After a long time of reading and seeing this technology it is most likely the future. I still think hydrogen has an outside chance, but will probably be electric.
Most people have a fundamental problem with giving EVs a chance because of change or politics or some BS.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 2:01 am to BuckyCheese
quote:
Guys that tow their boat to the lake are going to have fun recharging.
Chargers are generally set up a bit differently than gas pumps.
ie-They'll be unhooking their trailers at standard chargers
If they are traveling the distance needed for a recharge, yeah, makes sense. But they will be leaving the house with a full charge.
There are plenty of what-if situations that someone could throw out. Like what if the gas station by the lake is closed down for the day? How are you going to get gas?
Posted on 5/21/21 at 2:04 am to BuckyCheese
quote:Those guys probably shouldn't buy an EV at this time.
Guys that tow their boat to the lake are going to have fun recharging.
quote:I don't think anyone expects it to.
oil production cannot just disappear
quote:Yeah oil is useful stuff, we probably shouldn't burn so much of it.
plastics/chemicals anyone?
Posted on 5/21/21 at 2:21 am to Darth_Vader
quote:"Rare earth minerals" aren't all that rare. Almost all of the material in the batteries is infinitely recyclable.
What’s really crazy to me is that for years leftists have argued that one reason we have to get away from fossil fuels is because we will run out soon. So their answer is electric?!? How the frick do they think we will make the millions batteries for these things? Honestly. Look at all the minerals required to make even one battery, including rare earth minerals. It ain’t gonna work. It’s a pipe dream. And you’ve got to be a gullible fool to believe in it.
And over the course of 200k miles of driving an ICE, assuming 30mpg, you will have burned over 6,000 gallons of fuel. That's roughly 40,000 pounds of resources removed from the ground and burned. Feel free to do the math however you like for an EV, including all the materials used to build a 1,500 pound battery pack, as well as the resources consumed to produce the electricity using whatever mix of coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar, etc that you like. Pound for pound, the amount of fossil fuels required to power an EV vs ICE are probably roughly the same. This is why the shift to renewables goes hand in hand with the shift to EVs. I guess you have some misinformed talking points about that, too?
Posted on 5/21/21 at 2:33 am to Korkstand
quote:?
Pound for pound, the amount of fossil fuels required to power an EV vs ICE are probably roughly the same. This is why the shift to renewables goes hand in hand with the shift to EVs
Posted on 5/21/21 at 2:45 am to NC_Tigah
quote:A pound of oil/gasoline will take an ICE vehicle about as far as a pound of coal in a power plant will take an EV. At least that's what the info I found and my rough estimates say.
?
Posted on 5/21/21 at 5:06 am to lsu xman
quote:
The base model with 230 miles of range starts at $39,974, while the extended range version starts in the mid-$50,000s and can go about 300 miles.
How long does it take to charge?
Posted on 5/21/21 at 6:50 am to lsu xman
No.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 6:55 am to Martini
quote:
I’ll buy electric when I can get a 500-600 mile range and a 10 minute full charge across the country.
I think you nailed the break-over points. If you want the part of the public who doesn’t want a EV for just driving to their local organic coffee shop but for real world driving use then these numbers are what will be needed. For my job and the amount of driving I do in one day sometimes, 230 miles is not going to cut it even close. Now 500 to 600 miles you will get my attention.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 7:01 am to lsu xman
quote:
230 miles of range
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