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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:03 pm to
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
3757 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:03 pm to
ISW

quote:

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu celebrated an odd group of Russian armed formations operating in the western Zaporizhia Oblast direction during a conference call with Russian military leadership. Shoigu’s choice of units could indicate he seeks to highlight Russian commanders who continue to follow Russian military leadership’s orders for relentless counterattacks. Shoigu attributed successful Russian defensive operations around Robotyne (10km south of Orikhiv) and Verbove (18km southeast of Orikhiv) to elements of the Russian 70th Guards Motorized Rifle Regiment (42nd Motorized Rifle Division, 58th Combined Arms Army [CAA], Southern Military District), 56th Air Assault (VDV) Regiment (7th VDV Division), 810th Naval Infantry Brigade (Black Sea Fleet), and the 291st Guards Artillery Brigade (58th CAA, SMD) during a Russian military command meeting on October 3.[1] Shoigu did not highlight other formations that are routinely credited for maintaining the Robotyne-Verbove line such as the 108th VDV Regiment (7th VDV Division) or the 247th VDV Regiment (7th VDV Division).[2]

The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) has routinely deliberately snubbed or amplified the achievements of certain commanders in order to achieve Shoigu or the Russian military command’s political objectives.[3] While it is possible that Shoigu simply wanted to celebrate only a few formations, Shoigu may have highlighted some of these formations for political reasons.

The Russian MoD signaled its support for Chechen units fighting in Ukraine amid a recent controversy surrounding interethnic tensions in the Russian government, military, and information space. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu personally thanked Chechen Head Ramzan Kadyrov for overseeing the formation of three motorized rifle regiments and three motorized rifle battalions in Chechnya during a conference with Russian military leadership on October 3.[12] Shoigu claimed that these Chechen units have “proven themselves worthy” in the war in Ukraine and that over 14,500 Russian military personnel have undergone training at the Russian Special Forces University in Gudermes, Chechnya, before deploying to Ukraine. Kadyrov claimed on October 2 that over 30,000 Chechens have deployed to Ukraine, including over 14,000 volunteers.[13] Shoigu’s public praise of Kadyrov and Chechen units indicates the Russian MoD’s support for these units amid growing interethnic tension, as well as in the context of recent controversy in the Russian information space over statements by the Chairperson of the “Patriots of Russia” political party and the State Duma Committee of Nationalities Gennady Semigin about the superiority of Chechen “Akhmat” forces over regular Russian forces.[14]

The Kremlin also publicly indicated its support for Kadyrov’s style of rule in Chechnya following significant public outcry against Kadyrov and his son. Kadyrov stated on October 2 that he supported a proposal by Chechen Republic Prime Minister Muslim Khuchiev to appoint Kadyrov’s 24-year-old daughter, current Chechen Minister of Culture Aishat Kadyrova, as Deputy Prime Minister for Social Issues.[15] Kadyrov further stated on October 3 that he presented Kadyrova with the People’s Artist of Chechnya award and a Second Class Civilian Medal of the Order “For Merit to the Fatherland,” which Russian President Vladimir Putin conferred on Kadyrova in September.[16] Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov responded to questions about Kadyrova’s appointment, stating that regional appointments are at the “prerogative of the head of the region” and that “Kadyrov is using his prerogative.”

Russian President Vladimir Putin is reportedly preparing to announce his (certain to win) presidential campaign in November 2023, and reportedly intends to discuss the war in Ukraine as little as is necessary in political messaging. Russian outlet Kommersant reported on October 3 that sources close to the Russian Presidential Administration stated that Putin may announce his campaign during or shortly after the opening of the “Rossiya” international exhibition and forum on November 4.

A Reuters report published on October 3 stated that Russian forces have embedded “Storm-Z” units within conventional Russian units to conduct costly counterattacks against Ukrainian gains in key sectors of the front. Reuters reported that the Storm-Z units are composed of 100-150 personnel, including both civilian penal recruits and Russian soldiers under punishment, are embedded within conventional Russian military units, and deploy to the most exposed parts of the front.[22] Reuters estimated that Russia has currently deployed at least several hundred personnel to the front line in various “Storm-Z” units. Reuters interviewed multiple Russian soldiers, including fighters in “Storm-Z” units, which the Russian military command reportedly views as lesser than conventional military units. The Russian soldiers told Reuters that the Russian military command sends Russian soldiers to serve in the “Storm-Z” units after they commit acts of disobedience, including insubordination or drinking alcohol. Reuters reported that the Storm-Z units have sustained heavy losses, and one soldier embedded in the 237th Guards Air Assault Regiment (76th Airborne [VDV] Division) reportedly stated that his “Storm-Z” unit of 120 personnel lost all but 15 personnel while fighting near Bakhmut in June 2023. The Russian MoD has never formally confirmed the existence of the “Storm-Z” units, and ISW first reported on the existence of these “Storm-Z” units in April 2023.[23]

Ukrainian forces continued offensive operations near Bakhmut and in western Zaporizhia Oblast on October 3. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces conducted offensive operations in the Melitopol (western Zaporizhia Oblast) direction and offensive actions in the Bakhmut direction.[24] Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued ground attacks near Klishchiivka (7km southwest of Bakhmut) and Andriivka (10km south of Bakhmut) south of Bakhmut and on the Kopani-Robotyne-Verbove line (11-18km southwest to southeast of Orikhiv) in western Zaporizhia Oblast.[25]

Russian forces conducted a series of drone and missile strikes against Ukraine on the night of October 2 to 3. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on October 3 that Ukrainian air defenses downed 29 of 31 Shahed drones and one Iskander-M cruise missile targeting Mykolaiv and Dnipropetrovsk oblasts.[26] Russian sources, including the Russian MoD, claimed that Russian forces struck an industrial enterprise near Pavlohrad, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.[27]

The Armenian Parliament ratified the International Criminal Court’s (ICC) Rome Statute on October 3.[28] Armenia joins six other former Soviet countries in ratifying the Rome Statute: Georgia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Republic of Moldova, and Tajikistan.[29] Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov called Armenia’s decision to ratify the Rome Statue an “incorrect step” from the perspective of Russo-Armenian relations.


Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
3757 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:03 pm to
quote:

Key Takeaways:

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu celebrated an odd group of Russian armed formations operating in the western Zaporizhia Oblast direction during a conference call with Russian military leadership.

Shoigu’s choice of units could indicate he seeks to highlight Russian commanders who continue to follow Russian military leadership’s orders for relentless counterattacks.

The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) signaled its support for both Chechen units in Ukraine and Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov amid a recent controversy surrounding interethnic tensions in the Russian government, military, and information space.

Russian President Vladimir Putin is reportedly preparing to announce his (certain to win) presidential campaign in November 2023, and reportedly intends to discuss the war in Ukraine as little as is necessary in political messaging.

A Reuters report published on October 3 stated that Russian forces have embedded “Storm-Z” units within conventional Russian units to conduct costly counterattacks against Ukrainian gains in key sectors of the front.

Ukrainian forces continued offensive operations near Bakhmut and in western Zaporizhia Oblast on October 3.

Russian forces conducted a series of drone and missile strikes against Ukraine on the night of October 2 to 3.

The Armenian Parliament ratified the International Criminal Court’s (ICC) Rome Statute on October 3.

Russian forces conducted offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line, in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast and reportedly advanced in some areas.

The Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) is reportedly investigating Kursk Oblast Governor Roman Starovoit, likely in an attempt to remove government officials with connections to deceased Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin.

Russian opposition outlet Verstka revealed that almost half of all occupation officials of the senior and middle management levels in occupied Kherson, Zaporizhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk oblasts are from Russia.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
2633 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 4:41 am to
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 04 October 2023

On 28 September 2023, Russian air defence forces highly likely shot down one of their own Su-35S FLANKER M multi-role combat jets over Tokmak, approximately 20km behind the current front line.

Although Russia has lost around 90 fixed wing aircraft since the start of the invasion, this is probably only the fifth loss of a Su-35S, Russia's most advanced combat jet in widespread service. The location is relevant because Tokmak is a heavily fortified town which often hosts Russian headquarters commanding one of the most intensely contested sectors of the front line.

These headquarters would typically be protected with dedicated short and medium range air defence systems. These are almost certainly held at very high readiness, as Ukraine continues to conduct effective deep strikes against such locations.
Posted by Kingpenm3
Xanadu
Member since Aug 2011
8982 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 9:09 am to
Trying to get caught up here..

But can someone tell me what Putin's end game is? What accomplishment would end this war on the Russian side?
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
9727 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 10:31 am to
quote:

But can someone tell me what Putin's end game is? What accomplishment would end this war on the Russian side?


Taking most of if not all of Ukraine. Driving a wedge between NATO nations.
Posted by pirate75
Member since Jan 2011
815 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

That remains to be seen. But, at least for now, Ukraine has the momentum.


What happens if US support dries up? I imagine Ukraine shifting gears from offensive to defensive at that point.
Posted by Deek
Moores Bridge, AL
Member since Sep 2013
755 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 1:55 pm to
quote:

US support dries up


We can only hope
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64963 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

What happens if US support dries up? I imagine Ukraine shifting gears from offensive to defensive at that point.


If that were to happen, I don’t think Ukraine could sustain the war for long. They’d be forced to sue for peace pretty quickly. Ukraine has the will, they have the bodies, what they lack is the hardware and the logistics to support the hardware.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
36330 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

What happens if US support dries up? I imagine Ukraine shifting gears from offensive to defensive at that point.


They would lose all momentum.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
36330 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 2:15 pm to
quote:

If that were to happen, I don’t think Ukraine could sustain the war for long. They’d be forced to sue for peace pretty quickly. Ukraine has the will, they have the bodies, what they lack is the hardware and the logistics to support the hardware.


Do you think they would surrender that easily? I do not.

Do you think Europe would pull the plug?
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
23918 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 2:23 pm to
quote:

What happens if US support dries up?

China invades Taiwan about two weeks thereafter.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
51004 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 2:24 pm to
quote:

What happens if US support dries up?


Peace.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
51004 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

China invades Taiwan about two weeks thereafter.


You think we're somehow in a position to stop this right now?
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
11848 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 2:31 pm to
quote:

What happens if US support dries up?


quote:

Peace.


We would be back to 2014 - 2022.... a slower war. Russia doesnt have the ability to overrun Ukraine, and Ukraine wont have the ability to sustain an offense and would have to conserve western munitions/EQ

but the fight would just drag on for quite a while....

remember Ukraine and Russia have been at this since 2014, it only ramped up in 2022, and Ukraine stopped the advance on Kviv without Western aide for the most part. Drones are cheap.... we would see defense with drone attacks for years.... Ukraine is not giving up territory and russia has no reason to leave


Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
51004 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 2:35 pm to
quote:

Russia doesnt have the ability to overrun Ukraine


If they didn't, this wouldn't still be going on. It's taken the combined funding of dozens of nations, including the world's only superpower (us), just to keep them from overrunning Ukraine.
Posted by BoardReader
Arkansas
Member since Dec 2007
6935 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

But can someone tell me what Putin's end game is? What accomplishment would end this war on the Russian side?


Two different questions; the end game is not in Ukraine. Ukraine is one of about six outstanding issues that this was intended to be another step in correcting.

At this point, consolidation and stabilization of the frontier with either no Ukraine, or a rump state headed by a replacement, semi-friendly/non-super hostile puppet government would be end of war goal for the Russian Federation now.

Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64963 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

Do you think they would surrender that easily? I do not.


It’s not a matter of “surrendering easily”. If Western Aid was to stop, the leadership in Ukraine would quickly see they would need to sue for peace on as favorable terms as possible because the longer they delayed the more the war would favor Russia. Basically at that point Ukraine would have two choices:

1. Sue for peace while they still had at least the prospect of somewhat favorable terms.

2. Continue the war with diminishing stocks of ammo and weapons systems for no strategic gain. If they opted for this, their armed forces would eventually, probably in a matter of weeks or a few months, no longer be able to hold out. It would be a situation very similar to South Vietnam in 1975 when North Vietnam invaded after the US cut off all aid. They’d put up a fight but would collapse due to lack of functional weapons and ammo.


The leadership in Ukraine would have to be breathtakingly stupid to choose option two. They’d choose option one. That’s why I said if Westen aid were cut off, Ukraine would sue for peace.
This post was edited on 10/4/23 at 2:49 pm
Posted by OutsideObserver
Oceania.
Member since Dec 2022
773 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 2:48 pm to
quote:

If that were to happen, I don’t think Ukraine could sustain the war for long. They’d be forced to sue for peace pretty quickly. Ukraine has the will, they have the bodies, what they lack is the hardware and the logistics to support the hardware.


There has been a noticeable shift in Russian propaganda efforts, at least from what I have seen in recent months, with them taking aim at AFU morale through various surrender campaigns on a far greater scale.

This has coincided with a ramping up in the dissemination of footage claimed as strikes on AFU personnel doing evacs or clearing trenches, and deeper strikes on logistic networks.

This may be because Russia believes they have sufficiently muddied the water along with the current slow roll counter offensive that Ukraine has maintained so that Western support is slowing and they can now focus on Ukraine's will.

At the moment however I am looking at it from the opposite angle. With a worsening economy, Russia is struggling to keep things afloat in an increasing number of areas and they are facing a protracted conflict.

It is likely they will not have the capacity to maintain the levels of combat they have sustained thus far in the near future without significant internal pressures increasing so they are shifting to targeting Ukrainian will as it is the surest way to end the conflict sooner rather than later if successful which would go a long way to abating these pressures.

Edit:
Having just caught up on the ousting on McCarthy as speaker, what are your opinions on the effect this will have on the war in terms of U.S. commitment and its ability to send further aid in the short term?

Given that one of the main narratives for Russia is that a Biden led U.S. is using Ukraine to fight a proxy war it seems at odds that McCarthy who seemed relatively committed to helping Ukraine was ousted by the Democratic party plus some intransigent Republicans. - Not looking to make this political just interested in getting insight.
This post was edited on 10/4/23 at 4:22 pm
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
1343 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 4:20 pm to
also happens if Russia just fricks off

also happens if Ukraine decides they don’t want to fight

which is the most morally correct outcome?
Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
35186 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 4:35 pm to
quote:

And now the Russians are scrounging though their boneyards to cobble together a fleet of these museum pieces to send to the front as cannon fodder.


I eagerly await the lone parade t-34 to make its 21st century combat debut
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