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Started By
Message
re: Donovan, "I absolutely deserve to be going to Brazil"
Posted on 5/27/14 at 11:15 am to uway
Posted on 5/27/14 at 11:15 am to uway
quote:
I'm pretty tired of arguing on this
I would advise you to stop then.
quote:
I was talking specifically about the Mexico friendly after CWill said that Jurgy should have let Landon look bad in a friendly before not including him.
Don't even act like you weren't using the "out of shape" argument before that comment.
Just don't. It makes looks even more foolish.
quote:
so you should be able to see the context without me spelling it out for you. I
uway = u mad
quote:
There is a case to be made that Jurgen is not acting in bad faith here, but y'all won't have any of that.
Sure there is, I've acknowledged it many times, however that thought is much more unsubstantiated than the alternative.
1
Posted on 5/27/14 at 11:17 am to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
I feel like every single theory has been debunked. There is almost no way this is not personal.
Zero chance this is not a personal decision by JK.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 11:22 am to FunkasaurusReb
quote:
I'm at the point to where the only thing that is going to change my mind that it wasn't personal is if Howard, Dempsey, Bradley, or DMB come out and say that he was a cancer in the locker room. I'm past the point of listening to Jurgen (and his supporters) about this.
If we made it out of the group, got through the knockout round, and into the quarter finals would you still care if the decision was personal?
Posted on 5/27/14 at 11:25 am to Broski
quote:
I would advise you to stop then.
I will, at least with people who have proven they are not attempting to see both sides of the story.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 11:28 am to BamaChemE
I wouldn't care at the time. I would just drink up, sing songs, and experience the ride, but afterwards I think it will always kinda rub me the wrong way how he got treated. I'm by no means saying or wishing any ill will agianst Jurgen and the team, but unless a senior player on the team comes out and agrees with Donovan being cut its not going to sit right. And that won't happen until Howard/ DMB retires, or one of them writes a book.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 11:45 am to uway
quote:
I will, at least with people who have proven they are not attempting to see both sides of the story.
The problem with a lot of discussions here and elsewhere is that there is so much outright bs being presented as the other side of the story.
1) LD is grossly out of shape and severely out of form
2) LD is a cancer to the squad if he's not starting
Those two points strike me as being dangerously near a smear campaign.
If the other side of the story has to do with:
1) JK thinking LD doesn't fit with his tactics for the matchups at hand
2) Motivation: JK thinks omitting Donovan will leave only the senior leaders in place that have a more "warrior" type mentality
He's the coach, but both of these strike me as naive to say the least.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:28 pm to wm72
SBI
See the very long comment by "The Other Jeff" on this SBI post. If something like he describes is going on, it would be very difficult for Klinsmann to explain, but not hard to see how he might think Landon doesn't fit into it.
Landon did look out of shape against Mexico, Landon did claim that he couldn't train at 100% anymore, and Landon did look out of form with the Galaxy until the other night. After the fact, we have heard about him nearly winning the beep test and looking great in camp.
He's not a typical leader, but I don't buy that he's a team cancer. I could buy an argument that if he had the wrong attitude (according to JK), it would have an outsized effect on the other players.
quote:
the other side of the story
See the very long comment by "The Other Jeff" on this SBI post. If something like he describes is going on, it would be very difficult for Klinsmann to explain, but not hard to see how he might think Landon doesn't fit into it.
quote:
1) LD is grossly out of shape and severely out of form
2) LD is a cancer to the squad if he's not starting
Landon did look out of shape against Mexico, Landon did claim that he couldn't train at 100% anymore, and Landon did look out of form with the Galaxy until the other night. After the fact, we have heard about him nearly winning the beep test and looking great in camp.
He's not a typical leader, but I don't buy that he's a team cancer. I could buy an argument that if he had the wrong attitude (according to JK), it would have an outsized effect on the other players.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:45 pm to BamaChemE
Yes. Even if we won the WC, it was the wrong call.
I will never be okay with this decision. Like Hendo said, a little part of him died.
I will never be okay with this decision. Like Hendo said, a little part of him died.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 1:24 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
When this first happened I was confused and disgusted but willing to give Jurgen the benefit of the doubt. Now it really does look personal to me, too, as much as I hate to admit it. I was hoping for better from Jurgen. Disappointed.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 1:27 pm to cwil177
I noticed we have to started agree more again in the past two days. Obviously, I was the over the moon butthurt and hyper reactionary, but this still blows. The World Cup will not be the same for me.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 1:37 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
I noticed we have to started agree more again in the past two days. Obviously, I was the over the moon butthurt and hyper reactionary, but this still blows. The World Cup will not be the same for me.
Agreed. And I'll admit to being reactionary as well because I was really opposed to the knee-jerk stuff I saw on here, but having considered all the arguments Jurgen has thrown out there it's just harder and harder for me to believe it.
Not in form? Jozy (though I don't blame him for Sunderland sucking chode).
Not committed enough? Chandler (again, not putting as much blame on him for that as most others here do).
People being "just a little bit ahead of Landon right now" (whatever the frick that means)... Green. I want Green on the squad and hope he gets minutes, but you can't tell me he's playing at a higher level right now than Landon Donovan.
It's frustrating. I've lost a lot of faith in Klinsmann over this. That said, I hope he proves us all wrong and takes the team on a great run in the WC. I'll be rooting for the US all the way, as my love for this team is unwavering and nonnegotiable.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 1:59 pm to cwil177
quote:
Agreed. And I'll admit to being reactionary as well because I was really opposed to the knee-jerk stuff I saw on here, but having considered all the arguments Jurgen has thrown out there it's just harder and harder for me to believe it.
I have seen few legimate journalists/pundits justify the decision. Most toe the line of confusion/derision - but don't want to lose their precious access.
Alexi and Taylor seem to be the most incredulous, and I believe that to be because ESPN has the sway to ensure their access, no matter what the say.
It seems that the only people that still defend this are Jurgen, his son and the fanboys who popped a boner when he was hired.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 2:02 pm to Sheep
quote:
Alexi and Taylor seem to be the most incredulous, and I believe that to be because ESPN has the sway to ensure their access, no matter what the say.
I actually feel like they have questioned it just as much, if not more.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 2:06 pm to Sheep
quote:
the fanboys who popped a boner when he was hired.
I still remember Hendo not being thrilled with the hire. That definitely scared me because you know he is all about making our team learn from the Germans.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 3:51 pm to Broski
quote:
I actually feel like they have questioned it just as much, if not more.
That was the point...
Posted on 5/27/14 at 4:07 pm to cwil177
I'm stupid, I read it as him saying that Lalas & TT called off the dogs to ensure ESPN's access.
I r dum.
I r dum.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 4:11 pm to Broski
Seems like Lalas finds fault in everything the USMNT does, though.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 4:12 pm to cwil177
quote:
the knee-jerk stuff I saw on here
The problem was that you need a really good reason--a serious discipline problem or impressive decline--to drop someone like Landon Donovan for the US without a significantly improved squad. It was not immediately apparent that there was any realistic reason to drop him. If he gained 30 pounds or looked like absolute shite all of the time, that's something that the people who pay him millions of dollars a year are going to start bitching about before anyone else. He'd be at fat camp with Wayne Rooney if he was so apathetic and out of control that he was experiencing a Ronaldinho-like decline. Ronaldinho-like declines take active self destruction, anyway. Landon Donovan doesn't really strike me as that type of person.
I agree with Alexi's take more than any other that I've seen. Basically:
1. Cambodia was a droppable decision, but you had to do it then.
2. Klinsmann isn't a monster, but he doesn't understand Landon Donovan.
This is an okay decision to make if you are Mourinho and have Uncle Roman to buy you toys that you prefer to your already exceptional ones. International managers have to make the most out of their limited player pools, so it's a really dangerous decision to make with someone like Landon Donovan who wasn't that far removed from playing better than 4/5 of the team you named to go to the World Cup.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 4:45 pm to Sophandros
quote:
And what about turning his back on the team for an extended period of time?
IMO, this is why JK punked LD like that. Of course it's personal.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 5:54 pm to tigerpimpbot
quote:
IMO, this is why JK punked LD like that. Of course it's personal.
Why didn't he punk Timmy Chandler then?
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