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re: WHO was the “bad guy” of WWII?
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:05 am to AU86
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:05 am to AU86
quote:It is a close call as to who killed more people between the Nazis and the Stalinist regime with different sources producing different numbers for both. Hitler killed 14 million in his camps and 20 million Russians were estimated to have been killed in his invasion of Russia, not counting those killed in his European conquests. Stalin it was estimated to have killed between 20 to 40 million of his people. Recent studies in Russia have dropped the number to only a few million but that is likely just Russia's reborn fondness for Stalinism.
Now do Stalin you leftist hack. Who killed more, the Nazi's or the Bolshevik communists?
How come Stalin.and the communists get a pass? Why did FDR and his communists in his government suck him off?
The Nazis hated those different from them while Marxists persecuted their own.
As for why Stalin got a pass is because the Allies correctly viewed Hitler as the greater threat and did not want to offend a needed ally in Stalin. FDR was foolish to have trusted Stalin to keep his word as he was too late to realize the monster Stalin was.
1
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:06 am to RollTide1987
quote:
I like me some Tucker and he is free to have anyone he wants on his podcast, but Darryl Cooper is an anti-semitic and xenophobic revisionist who bemoans the fact that Britain didn't give Germany a free hand in Europe.
Yes, the guy who did a 20+ hour podcast on the formation of Israel that starts with the horrors of a pogrom from the point of view of a Jewish family is an anti-Semite.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:11 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
This is the part that doesnt get talked about. The mark became worthless. German people became desperate.
There is some disagreement as to what caused the massive inflation. Some say the germans intentionally inflated the mark to help payoff the massive WW1 reperations. Some say it was forces outside of germany. It is an interesting conversation but nit a common one.
its a combination of everything. after WWI the dollar was the global reserve currency.
Germany was pretty much under sanctions. Woodrow Wilson was a senile old puppet for bankers, who weaponized the dollar against the whole world. Germany took the brunt of that because of war reparations and political instability in the 1920s.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:12 am to BuckI
quote:
It is a close call as to who killed more people between the Nazis and the Stalinist regime with different sources producing different numbers for both.
bullshite. That is a lie.
From the time of the Polish invasion to that of Barbarossa Stalin killed many more Poles than the Germans did in Poland. The Soviets really went to work after they invaded.
That is just one example.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:14 am to RollTide1987
Well, that’s enough PT for today.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:17 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
There was a country that was using concentration camps on its enemies, starving the civilian populations, preparing chemical weapons, and hellbent on world domination.
Well, there were two if you count the germans.
Russia, Germany, Japan, Canada, the U.S., among others had concentration camps. We held Japanese and Germans, whose families had been citizensof the US for many decades. They were stripped of there rights and property simply for being of German or Japanese decent. Most of them never got their property back and many of them died of, guess what? Typhus, which is also what the majority of the Jews held in Germany died from,alond with starvation, after allied forces cut off all supply lines. Guess what else all of these camps had in common? They all used Zyclon B or some derivative thereof in small chambers to gas prisoner's CLOTHES to prevent lice infestation. The lice that are carriers of the disease.
One thing to remember is that the victorious ALWAYS write the history.
This post was edited on 9/15/24 at 10:19 am
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:19 am to RollTide1987
quote:
WHO was the “bad guy” of WWII?
The problem is in trying to look at history in the simplistic black/white view we teach to school children.
If you want a more in-depth answer you have to go back to the fall of the Ottoman Empire, more specifically the results in the Balkans. This region was traditionally at various odds, but the Ottoman rule was replaced by a chaotic mishmash of various countries and domestic groups pushing back and forth against one another in trying to claim territory, independence, etc.
To refine it a little, Austria-Hungary (an ally of Germany) annexed Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1908 as an attempt to keep Russia out of the area and to keep the dying Ottoman Empire from once again establishing their foothold there. This was what led to Archduke Ferdinand's assassination, which led to all of the various political alliances picking sides.
The aftermath of that was the Treaty of Versailles, which basically put Germany into a restrictive box. Being placed in that box created resentment among Germans, which set the stage for Hitler who gave the German people a focus for their dissatisfaction and ire. Hitler rode the momentum from that focus into trying to create a German empire, with a large part of that being to kill millions who did not fit his mythical geneticism of being "Aryan" (which he himself did not fit).
It all depends on how large or narrow a scope of time you're wanting to look at, how deep into the weeds of cause/effect you want to get into and even how much blame for unknown future domino effects we want to place on specific individuals and/or actions.
For me, it comes down to two questions:
1. Was Hitler justified in trying to create a German empire by taking over Europe?
2. Were Jews doing so much damage to Germany that it justifies Hitler's attempted genocide of them?
For me, both answers are "no", thus if I had to make a hierarchy of "bad guys" for WW2, Hitler would be at the top of the list as his actions far outweighed the circumstances which fueled his actions AND those actions were the impetus for other reactions.
This post was edited on 9/15/24 at 10:22 am
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:23 am to AU86
quote:
From the time of the Polish invasion to that of Barbarossa Stalin killed many more Poles than the Germans did in Poland.
That is incorrect. Of the six million Jews who are estimated to have died in the Holocaust, three million of that number were Polish. An additional 2.5-3 million Poles were killed during the German occupation either in the concentration camps, by execution squads, or while performing manual slave labor. So six million Poles alone killed by Nazi Germany. Compare that to the estimated 300,000-500,000 killed by the Soviets and there's no comparison who treated the Poles worse.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:24 am to AU86
quote:The question I was answering was who killed more overall, not just in 1 nation. So, I'm not sure why you're trying to change the subject to only who killed more Poles.
bullshite. That is a lie.
From the time of the Polish invasion to that of Barbarossa Stalin killed many more Poles than the Germans did in Poland. The Soviets really went to work after they invaded.
That is just one example.
It is estimated that Germany killed between 4-5 million, 1-2 million citizens, and 3 million Jews in WW2.
The Soviets murdered over 20,000 in the Katyn Massacre which is what I think you are referring to and another 150K Polish citizens in the war.
Neither side respected Polish citizens and national rights.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:28 am to BuckI
In particular Pershing and Foch were not enthusiastic to the Armistice and Treaty . Pershing felt that a "negotiated" peace meant nothing in the long run. If there was to be a treaty it should be signed and forced on the Germans in Berlin.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:31 am to BuckI
The Treaty of Versailles was used by Hitler as a political tool. Don’t buy into his propaganda. Sure, there was hardship in Germany, but it didn’t justify
re- armament to create the new Reich
and slaughter millions of people throughout Europe and North Africa.
re- armament to create the new Reich
and slaughter millions of people throughout Europe and North Africa.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:35 am to RollTide1987
I am talking about the time from the German/Soviet invasion to the invasion of the Soviet Union by Germany.
I am not talking about what happened after the beginning if Barberossa.
Read Stalin's War by Sean McMeekin
I am not talking about what happened after the beginning if Barberossa.
Read Stalin's War by Sean McMeekin
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:36 am to 632627
quote:
What’s most troubling about this whole incident is the #1 conservative voice, with some 20 million followers, touting cooper as the most honest and important American historian.
TC didnt “tout” him
he just gave the guy a platform to put out his views to be discussed
you are supposed to make up your own mind about Cooper’s points
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:37 am to AU86
quote:
He offered them generous peace terms and Churchill turned them down
I didn’t know that.
When?
What were the terms?
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:38 am to VOR
quote:I wasn't using the treaty to excuse Hitler, only pointing out how it allowed Hitler to rise. There is no excuse for what Hitler did.
The Treaty of Versailles was used by Hitler as a political tool. Don’t buy into his propaganda. Sure, there was hardship in Germany, but it didn’t justify
The living standard for the average post-WW1 German was lower than any minority in this nation today. The people were desperate and it was only a matter of time before the fascists or Marxists would take over.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:39 am to supatigah
quote:
TC didnt “tout” him
Tucker Carlson literally called him the most important historian in America at the beginning of his podcast.
If that isn't touting then I don't know what is.
This post was edited on 9/15/24 at 10:39 am
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:41 am to AU86
quote:
I am not talking about what happened after the beginning if Barberossa.
So you're talking about the time before Germany began the Holocaust? Got it. I'm just trying to see which history we are going to pick and choose from to make our arguments more dishonest and disingenuous.
This post was edited on 9/15/24 at 10:42 am
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:44 am to VOR
quote:
The Treaty of Versailles was used by Hitler as a political tool. Don’t buy into his propaganda. Sure, there was hardship in Germany, but it didn’t justify re- armament to create the new Reich and slaughter millions of people throughout Europe and North Africa.
Good lord, more childish crap.
Just because Hitler said it doesn’t mean it’s not real.
When you give an evil POS the material he needs to pull off his crap, you helped create the problem.
This post was edited on 9/15/24 at 10:45 am
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:50 am to supatigah
Carlson absolutely did tout him....
"Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian" was the caption on his podcast
"Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian" was the caption on his podcast
Posted on 9/15/24 at 10:52 am to RollTide1987
The Nazis and the Japanese
Wow. That was an easy question
Wow. That was an easy question
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