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re: WHO was the “bad guy” of WWII?

Posted on 9/15/24 at 1:54 pm to
Posted by theballguy
HSV (Dealing only in satire)
Member since Oct 2011
37130 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

And in my honest opinion, America as a whole has become worse than all of them.


Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 1:56 pm to
Look at what the US was involved in at the time in regards to aiding Britain. It was essentially a state of war. The US was in no way neutral at the time. Hitler stated he did it to unleash the full power of his u boats against the US/shipping.. He also said that he felt that he was obligated to declare war because a state of war now officially existed between his ally Japan and the US. Tripartite Pact. He said that was his interpretation of the Pact.

Japan's strategy had already shifted South instead of going against the Soviets. Japan went as far as signing a non aggression treaty with Stalin. When that happened that allowed Stalin to shift troops from the East.

Japan and Germany were never close in so far as sharing equipment/technology.
This post was edited on 9/15/24 at 2:07 pm
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35924 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 1:58 pm to
quote:

Much of the far left's policies in Europe are a direct result to make sure Nazism never rises again.


Except the part about disarming the people most at risk. They went full on with that policy.
Posted by dsides
Member since Jan 2013
6161 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

theballguy


Dude you are an idiot. You came in here referring to an essay that doesn’t exist and sucked off Churchill. Take a lap
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42611 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:11 pm to
I never understood how Hitler thought he had to declare war on the US because Japan did, but Japan never had to declare war on Russia.
Posted by Jake88
Member since Apr 2005
79931 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:17 pm to
That's dumb. Books dont say that. The Communists didn't spread their shite by losing every war. The Mongols? Cambodian Civil War? Muslim Conquests?
Posted by Goonie02
Member since Dec 2019
2797 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:19 pm to
quote:

Its really not a difficult question to answer. France spent the second half of the 19th Century being humiliated by the Prussians and ultimately the Germans, who declared their nation in the Palace of Versailles. France then lost a full generation of men to the Germans on the Western Front.

lets not downplay France being the reason for the Germans aggressiveness towards them. lets not forget prior to the Prussians becoming militaristic and uniting Germany they were pretty much at the mercy of France.

Prussian nobility was not your typical European Aristocrat class. most of their prominent families were dirt poor in contrast to their contemporaries throughout the continent. Prussian Aristocracy took pride in being militaristic and fearsome. a lot of the German officers of Prussian stock were scarred because of the fencing duels they partook in as initiation.

they took the chauvinism too far with the unification of the German people and declaring the head of state Kaiser(Caesar). same thing with the Russian Tsars. Tsar is short for Caesar. Friedrich Nietzsche did not like the path Germany was on, he knew they would take it too far with the new found riches and ingenuity of the united Germans.
Posted by Jake88
Member since Apr 2005
79931 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:19 pm to
quote:

 And in my honest opinion, America as a whole has become worse than all of them
Thanks Mr. Code Pink!
Posted by Sofaking2
Member since Apr 2023
21186 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:23 pm to
I love Daryl and loved his Jim Jones’ episodes. He did a great job on many of his topics. I don’t agree with him about this Churchill issue. What was Churchill supposed to do once Hitler basically took over all of Europe? A peace treaty was not an option even if Hitler wanted one. You can’t just let Hitler keep France and all of Europe, lol. Some of the problems that lead us to WW2 I do agree with many of you. Not punishing Germany so severely after WW1 and we probably avoid Hitler.
Posted by Lord of the Hogs
Member since Sep 2023
3636 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:24 pm to
The thing is, Hitler and National Socialism’s rise to power was a direct result of radical leftist movements and ideology.
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:34 pm to
Japan basically screwed him. When Japan signed the treaty with Stalin, the Germans didn't know it was coming. Japan pulled a Hitler on Hitler.

Hitler's other ally Mussolini was a great detriment to Hitler. Hitler bailed him out and continued saving his arse. Hitler never turned on him all the way to the end. Very strange. That in some ways was costly for Germany and it's fortunes.
This post was edited on 9/15/24 at 2:36 pm
Posted by BuckI
Grove City, Ohio
Member since Oct 2020
7244 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:41 pm to
quote:

The thing is, Hitler and National Socialism’s rise to power was a direct result of radical leftist movements and ideology.
The Nazis might have been a reaction to far-left movements in Germany, but they were not far left. Their core support was working-class conservatives with strong nationalist beliefs. Not all conservatives were Nazis, many fought against Hitler but there were so many different political parties, they would never combine forces that were strong enough to stop Hitler.

The Nazis and Communists did call a truce to their street wars and aligned for a period against the German Republic.
Posted by Lord of the Hogs
Member since Sep 2023
3636 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:46 pm to
There were smaller right-wing nationalist parties that were eventually absorbed into the NSDAP.

Hitler at one point said, “the communists can join us, but we will not join them.”
Posted by Lord of the Hogs
Member since Sep 2023
3636 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:49 pm to
Churchill was bought and paid for by a group of British (mostly Jewish) bankers, industrialists, and statesmen known as “The Focus.” They used Churchill as their man to be the face of British politics and war against Germany.
Posted by Sofaking2
Member since Apr 2023
21186 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 2:52 pm to
Ok, but once Hitler takes over all of Europe what was England or the world supposed to do? You can’t walk away from that. I’d love to hear other options?
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42611 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 3:00 pm to
quote:

Churchill was bought and paid for by a group of British (mostly Jewish) bankers, industrialists, and statesmen known as “The Focus.” They used Churchill as their man to be the face of British politics and war against Germany.


The war started before Chamberlain was elected PM and he was removed from office before the war ended. Explain that.
Posted by Sam Quint
Member since Sep 2022
8864 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 3:12 pm to
quote:

The roots of WW2 go back to the Treaty of Versailles. The greed and vengeance of the WW1 allies set the stage for an even greater war and allowed the ''bad guy'' Adolph Hitler an excuse to go on his murderous rampage. Much of the far left's policies in Europe are a direct result to make sure Nazism never rises again.

It's really all Gavrilo Princip's fault
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71142 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 3:25 pm to
Churchill wasn’t even in government when Germany invaded Poland.
Posted by 3nOut
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Jan 2013
32392 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 3:39 pm to
quote:

Cooper never once said hitler was a good guy yet here they are spewing the lie again. Completely discredits their whole rant.




this started on my play next on the way to church (i think Shapiro can be a 'tard on this sort of stuff like Israel/Gaza, but i can listen to some other things and enjoy) and i listened for a few minutes and bailed.



if you have any interest in Cooper's own words here's a full interview.

tl;dw:

of course Hitler is the bigger bad guy. of course the Holocaust is awful. but it's almost like a religious ritual that you can't even talk about WWII objectively 80 years later without making sure that you say "Hitler was evil and the Holocaust was bad." If you don't repeat the ritual of saying "Hitler was evil and the Holocaust was bad" then anything else you say is obviously approving of Hitler and denying/approving the Holocaust.

You can disagree or agree with his analysis, but his simpler terms were "if there's a standoff with the police and a man with a gun and his family held hostage and it goes south, it's not the police that pulled the trigger. nobody says "this was the murderer AND the police's fault."

we have no idea if that guy was going to pull the trigger no matter what and there's no way if there's a possibility that he could have been talked out of it. but he did pull the trigger and it lead to the worst possible outcome. it's ok to look at the police tactics and ask what went wrong without blaming them.

We can say whether or not WWII could have ended better, but there's not a ton of ways it could have been worse. maybe 6 million Jews died in the holocaust instead of 7, sure, but then 6 million people died.
Posted by Lord of the Hogs
Member since Sep 2023
3636 posts
Posted on 9/15/24 at 3:46 pm to
Remember, it was Britain and France that declared war on Germany. Why? Because Germany invaded Poland, right? Well, where was Britain and France when the Soviet Union invaded Poland just two weeks after Germany did?

Hitler actually offered peace several times only for Britain and France to ignore him. Hitler only invaded other countries like Belgium or the Netherlands, for example, to secure strategic areas that could’ve been used as staging areas for attacks on Germany. Countries like Denmark or Norway, to secure supply lines for vital resources, such as iron ore.

Of course, German troops would’ve been pulled back if any peace deals were reached.
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