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re: WHO was the “bad guy” of WWII?
Posted on 9/15/24 at 11:50 am to Pikes Peak Tiger
Posted on 9/15/24 at 11:50 am to Pikes Peak Tiger
quote:
Sure they are so determined that Nazis never coming back that they are becoming like the Nazis themselves
Honest question...
Look at only the basic ideology of the Nazi party. I'm not saying I support it in any way, but leave out the genocide and the resulting acts that came from the physical radicalism of the ideals, and compare it to modern American Uniparty politics. Is it any worse?
American politicians have established and entrenched themselves as generationally powerful and wealthy Kleptocratic Etatists. They are the modern day "master race" that just happens to occasionally blur the lines of skin color and allow crossover, though the elites are predominantly and overwhelmingly of white European descent.
The detestable acts of Nazi Germany are inexcusable. There is no argument there. But Stalin's reds weren't any better. And in my honest opinion, America as a whole has become worse than all of them. We've waged war and exterminated brown people for decades just because of the oil deposits beneath those peoples' feet in the desert.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 11:51 am to dsides
quote:
Kind of like we are currently doing with communism?
No one on the left who conveniently ignore Stalin and Mao when excoriating Hitler and the Third Reich ever want to mention is that the Nazis were the National Socialist German Workers' Party. They always leave that little part out.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 11:57 am to TigerAxeOK
quote:
American politicians have established and entrenched themselves as generationally powerful and wealthy Kleptocratic Etatists.
Vivek calls them the ruling class and they are so desperate to stamp out populism that they will use Nazi techniques of censorship, demonization propaganda, and jailing opponents.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 11:59 am to BuckI
quote:
The roots of WW2 go back to the Treaty of Versailles.
True to an extent, but that chain can go easily go back longer. German unification, the Franco-Prussia war, and on and on.
All of history is connected.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:03 pm to SoFla Tideroller
Hitler purged socialist currents from the party in 1934 during the ''Night of the Long Knives''. Their program of a class war interfered with Hitler's plan of a race war.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:03 pm to Goonie02
quote:
the real question everyone should be asking is why German people were kicked while they were down
Its really not a difficult question to answer. France spent the second half of the 19th Century being humiliated by the Prussians and ultimately the Germans, who declared their nation in the Palace of Versailles. France then lost a full generation of men to the Germans on the Western Front.
It may be a stupid track to take in hindsight, and Wilson warned them against it in real time, but its not hard to understand why the French wanted Germany crippled in 1919. Germany had brought France to the brink twice in 40 years. France made the lions share of the sacrifice and so they got their way. Of course, that directly lead to it happening again.
This post was edited on 9/15/24 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:07 pm to TigerAxeOK
quote:
I'm not saying I support it in any way, but leave out the genocide and the resulting acts that came from the physical radicalism of the ideals, and compare it to modern American Uniparty politics. Is it any worse?
Depends on what you want to extricate from their ideology I suppose. Like any political movement, yes there were aspect of National Socialism that was "good policy" for Germany at the time and helped the country out of the economic and social hole it was in. But it is hard to separate those things from what it devolved into.
quote:
But Stalin's reds weren't any better.
This is why Britain and France didn't kill Hitler's rise in the crib. They underestimated him and how deluded he ultimately was, and saw him as a bulwark against socialist revolution in Europe. Until he wasn't only that and it was too late.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:14 pm to AU86
quote:
It is pretty well proven that Hitler had no interest in fighting n the British.
The same argument was made by the Kaiser, and its overly simplistic.
1940 Britain could not tolerate nor trust 1940 Germany controlling the entire continent. The demands would have kept coming.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:17 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
It amuses me to watch supa-edgy people flock to Cooper’s views .
I never considered listening to views outside the mainstream to be "supa-edgy." I just view it as rational and necessary.
quote:
People want a counter narrative SO BAD, because correctly sensing how many bad narratives they’ve accepted, they want an alternative, and pick one even worse
A lame attempt to belittle those that don't just accept what they are told. I base my beliefs on facts and logic. I'm not desperately seeking any "counter narrative." I'm interested in the truth, and I realize that a history textbook is not the best way to find it. I hope one day that many others realize that as well.
quote:
Hence Muh Churchill or Muh Jews or whatever else confirms their particular biases in September of 2024.
Yes, I'm extremely biased towards facts. Facts like it is physically impossible to kill 6 million people without mass graves.
It's physically impossible to kill the numbers claimed at aushwitz with only 3 interconnected ovens.
There is no physical evidence to suggest 6 million died. This number comes straight from the mouths of Jewish organizations. This same 6 million numbers was claimed to be "the number of jews in peril" before WWI even happened. Weird, huh? It's almost like the number 6 is important to them.
Churchill could have ended the war in 1940-41 but chose not to.
Churchill was drunk in debt before WWII, yet somehow his debts were magically paid off.
Churchill lost the British empire.
You don't have to edgy to realize that mainstream history has been lying to you your entire life. It just takes a little courage to accept that the world is dirtier than we want to believe.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:19 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
Churchill could have ended the war in 1940-41 but chose not to.
He chose not to because Hitler could not be trusted and a Germany dominated Europe was not in Britain's interest.
quote:
Churchill lost the British empire.
The British Empire was dying anyway.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:21 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
There is no physical evidence to suggest 6 million died. This number comes straight from the mouths of Jewish organizations. This same 6 million numbers was claimed to be "the number of jews in peril" before WWI even happened. Weird, huh? It's almost like the number 6 is important to them.
So if it was only 1 million that would be some sort of material difference?
This is a silly argument. I have no doubt that numbers are exaggerated, as they are and have been in every conflict...ever. Doesn't change the overall reality of what happened and why, and who did it.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:23 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Please explain to the group what the subtle nuances of Germany's peace proposal to the British were.
Hitler would have got around to fighting the British eventually, his Oct 1939 peace proposal was a stall tactic for him to:
1. secure his oil supplies in North Africa, Turkey, Hungary, Romania, Poland to fuel his war machine and power his empire
2. finish off the conflicts in Spain, Poland, the Baltics, N Africa
3. firm up his control over the German Govt and the Govts in the new German territories
4. solidify and expand the Jewish “evacuation and relocation” programs - which were lies, they were full on genocide
5. prepare for the Eastern push to destroy the Bolsheviks
Britain was a nuisance on the seas and committed to defending Poland and France on the ground. Placating England in the short term would have allowed Hitler to defeat the French and get his house in order
churchill knew this and in may 1940 when he took over as PM for chamberlain, his position was dont fall for it and he pledged to keep up the fight..
Blood, toil, tears, sweat speech - May 1940
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:25 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
Not even worth a response, Hamas bro.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:28 pm to supatigah
quote:
Hitler would have got around to fighting the British eventually, his Oct 1939 peace proposal was a stall tactic for him to:
Exactly. He was eventually going to come for Gibraltar, or Suez, or the African possessions, or access to India. Or all of it.
The peace overtures were merely an attempt to sideline the Royal Navy because Hitler jumped the gun and started his war a decade before the Kriegsmarine was ready for it.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:35 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
Not even worth a response, Hamas bro.
Yet you just did. Nice self own
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:38 pm to BuckI
Did he purge Goebbels?
Did he purge Roland Freisler?
Two examples of individuals who has Socialist leanings. There were many left in the party after the Night if the Long Knives. As long as these type were National Socialists Hitler didn't care. Hitler purged the Strasser brothers and their supporters who were leftists, because he viewed them as a threat to his leadership. As long as they weren't a threat, Hitler promoted them. That is the reason Hitler purged the radical left wing of the party.
Hitler use to joke about Freisler and his socialist/communist views.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:47 pm to supatigah
another wishcasting view from Quora to consider:
long write up on this on quora
1. why would anyone trust the Nazis back then?
2. why would we now doubt the distrust of the Nazis back then?
3. we know the official Nazi story of how the Jewish evacuations were being handled in Europe was bullshite all the way back to 1933
long write up on this on quora
quote:
According to the excellent book “The Hitler-Hess Deception” by Martin Allen, a recently unclassified high-level British Foreign Ministry memo noted 16 separate German peace attempts from September 1939-June 1941. The British and French declarations of war on Germany in September 3, 1939 came as a shock to Hitler. He was obsessed with making peace with Britain and France as he never wanted to fight them in the first place as all his territorial ambitions lay eastward.
Interestingly, unofficial British policy from 1935–1939 was designed to encourage Hitler to channel his aggressions eastward towards the Soviet Union, which is exactly what he did. The British military guarantee of March 1939 marked a major departure from previous British policy and caused the Polish government to refuse to negotiate a peaceful resolution of the Danzig issue. Hitler had hoped to get Poland and Britain to ally with Germany against the USSR but Polish refusal to return the “free city” of Danzig when he had not asked for one single inch of Polish territory caused Hitler to invade Poland.
He subsequently made peace offers to the Western Allies on September 2, 1939, October 6,. 1939, July 1940 and May 10, 1941 with many in between.
Churchill had become Prime Minister on May 10, 1940 and he was determined to continue the war until Germany was destroyed once and for all no matter how generous the peace terms offered by Hitler.
Britain actually came fairly close to accepting peace with Germany on May 28, 1940 during the so-called War Cabinet crisis when Halifax who had turned down the offer to become Prime Minister instead of Churchill, but who was still serving as Foreign Minister, persuaded the majority of the War Cabinet to negotiate a peace agreement with Nazi Germany on favorable terms to the British even threatening to resign before Churchill outmaneuvered him.
Had Halifax resigned, Chamberlain likely would have resigned with him resulting in the call of a no confidence vote in the Churchill-led coalition government. That would have likely led to Halifax reluctantly agreeing to serve as PM with the full support of Chamberlain, who was still the leader of the Conservative Party, and the King to negotiate an end to the war.
The terms of such a treaty likely would have been similar to the terms offered by Hitler in July 1940 and May 1941. The terms stated below were very favorable to Britain as they essentially would result in the retreat of all German troops from all nations occupied during the war but Poland and Luxembourg causing Germany to retreat to its October 1939 line of control without the need for a single drop of British blood to be shed.
The May 1943 American Mercury article summarized the terms of Hitler’s May 10, 1941 formal peace offer, which was confirmed by multiple British sources and typed in both German and English on official German Chancellory paper, as follows: “Hitler offered total cessation of the war in the West. Germany would evacuate all of France except Alsace and Lorraine, which would remain German. It would evacuate Holland and Belgium, retaining Luxembourg. It would evacuate Norway and Denmark. In short, Hitler offered to withdraw from Western Europe, except for the two French provinces and Luxembourg [Luxembourg was never a French province, but an independent state of ethnically German origin], in return for which Great Britain would agree to assume an attitude of benevolent neutrality towards Germany as it unfolded its plans in Eastern Europe. In addition, the Führer was ready to withdraw from Yugoslavia and Greece. German troops would be evacuated from the Mediterranean generally, and Hitler would use his good offices to arrange a settlement of the Mediterranean conflict between Britain and Italy. No belligerent or neutral country would be entitled to demand reparations from any other country, he specified.
The proposal contained many other points, including plans for plebiscites and population exchanges where these might be necessitated by shifts in population that has resulted from the military action in Western Europe and the Balkans. But the versions circulating in authoritative circles all agree on the basic points outlined above … Hess emphasized that his Leader would not quibble over details -- Britain could practically write its own peace terms.”
In addition, Hess stated that “Germany had no designs on America.” German leaders informed the British that Hitler was willing to commit to the “restoration of a Polish state” which presumably meant a Polish puppet state aligned with Nazi Germany (which would be much better than having Poland continue under direct Nazi rule) and wanted to negotiate the return of former German colonies which had been taken from Germany after World War I. They also told the British that Hitler agreed to preserve Britain’s full independence and keep all of its other colonial possessions even proposing a 25-year Anglo-German alliance in which Germany would offer the use of its troops to defend the British Empire, if necessary.
One of the express terms of Hitler’s peace offer was “the resettlement of the Jews in Palestine.”
Pretty much all the American, British and French lives lost during that period can be blamed on Churchill because 7 of the 9 countries Germany had invaded between 1939–1945 would have been liberated if Hitler’s final peace offer to Britain hand carried by Deputy Fuhrer Rudolf Hess had been accepted while the Jewish Holocaust (which Hitler did not plan until the British refused two years of his pleas to deport them from Europe) would have been averted
. If the US and UK didn’t fight Nazi Germany after June 1941, then Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union would have likely continued fighting for control of Eastern Europe for many years beyond actual history though a temporary armistice might have been reached.
The Soviet Union would have been weakened hemmed in by Nazi Germany in Eastern Europe and Japan in the Far East so the US would not have had to fight a Cold War and lose 100,000 troops in Korea and Vietnam. The Pacific War likely never would have been fought. China and North Korea would never have fallen to Communist control and would be US allies today. Over 100 million innocent lives, including six million Jews, likely would have been saved.
1. why would anyone trust the Nazis back then?
2. why would we now doubt the distrust of the Nazis back then?
3. we know the official Nazi story of how the Jewish evacuations were being handled in Europe was bullshite all the way back to 1933
Posted on 9/15/24 at 12:50 pm to TigerAxeOK
quote:
Look at only the basic ideology of the Nazi party. I'm not saying I support it in any way, but leave out the genocide and the resulting acts that came from the physical radicalism of the ideals
So just leave out the most important and fundamental policies of the Nazi regime.
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