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re: The Federal Reserve is running huge losses. Who pays for it?

Posted on 11/29/23 at 2:10 pm to
Posted by stuntman
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
10883 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 2:10 pm to
I love the sleight of hand in that article. I didn't ask where they get the treasuries, I asked where they got the money to buy those securities.



I do appreciate the link though, because I did not know that they require higher reserves as they buy up more securities.
Posted by Bayoutigre
29.9N 92.1W
Member since Feb 2007
5912 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 2:16 pm to
the federal reserve has NEVER been audited,nor does it pay tax.they can tell you whatever numbers they want,all internal.the USA,INC. could have walked away a few years back.but NOBODY in congress had the balls to even bring it up.the feds are done,over we have no debt,they are no longer allowed to print money.
Posted by jclem11
Chief Nihilist
Member since Nov 2011
9767 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

Bayoutigre


quote:

the federal reserve has NEVER been audited,nor does it pay tax.they can tell you whatever numbers they want,all internal.the USA,INC. could have walked away a few years back.but NOBODY in congress had the balls to even bring it up.the feds are done,over we have no debt,they are no longer allowed to print money.



Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134923 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

I love the sleight of hand in that article. I didn't ask where they get the treasuries, I asked where they got the money to buy those securities.

The "money" the Fed uses to buy treasury securities is reserves which the Fed injects into the financial system when it purchases anything, whether it's treasury securities or a new computer. The Fed receives whatever it is buying and a commercial bank gets an increase in its reserve balance at the Fed.

Banks can then use those reserves to either make loans and thus increase the money supply via the fractional reserve process or simply leave the reserves in their account at the Federal Reserve to earn interest on their balance at the Fed.

There is NO "sleight of hand" in the article I linked. But you do have to be somewhat familiar with basic monetary economics and financial terminology.
Posted by Big Chipper
Charlotte, NC
Member since Sep 2008
2966 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

the federal reserve has NEVER been audited



KPMG does a full audit on their balance sheet (which encompasses the entire operation) every year.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134923 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 2:35 pm to
quote:

the federal reserve has NEVER been audited
The Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve Banks, and the Federal Reserve System as a whole are all subject to several levels of audit and review.

The Federal Reserve district banks are audited at least three times every year by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), the Fed's independent outside auditor and the Office of Inspector General.

The audited annual financial statements of the Board of Governors, the Reserve Banks, and the Federal Reserve System as a whole are available on the Board's website at LINK
Posted by Timeoday
Easter Island
Member since Aug 2020
23191 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 5:59 pm to
Yep, you can count on the Fed to adjust policies to forward their mandate whenever they wish.

The Fed chairs and US Treasury secretaries are generally of a particular demographic as well!!
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134923 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 6:18 pm to
Getting back to your fake news OP, you've never explained the huge operating losses the Fed is currently experiencing.

Why not?

PS-If you don't provide an explanation for the "huge losses" the Fed is having, you realize it makes you look really, really stupid, right?
Posted by Timeoday
Easter Island
Member since Aug 2020
23191 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 7:01 pm to
quote:

Getting back to your fake news OP, ......


There has just been a landmark event at the Federal Reserve: Its accumulated operating losses have passed $100 billion. This startling number, which would previously been thought impossible, was reported on Sept. 14, 2023, in the Fed’s H.4.1 Release.

It is essential to understand that these are not mark-to-market paper losses; they are real cash losses resulting from the Fed’s expenses being to this remarkable extent greater than all its revenue. These are equally losses to the U.S. Treasury and thus costs to the taxpayers; nonetheless the Fed keeps officially insisting that its losses don’t matter. (Meanwhile the Fed’s mark-to-market losses are more than $ 1 trillion in the most recent public report.)

The Fed started posting operating losses in September 2022, so it has taken only 12 months to produce this ocean of red ink. Looking forward, annualizing the year-to-date results suggests the Fed’s net loss for calendar year 2023 will be about $117 billion.

...... the Fed itself, the Treasury and the taxpayers will be suffering continuing huge losses.

Fed is in TROUBLE!!

TROUBLE!!

Maybe you should arrive on the double!!

This post was edited on 11/29/23 at 7:03 pm
Posted by Free888
Member since Oct 2019
3281 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 7:47 pm to
You, your children, and their children
Posted by tarzana
TX Hwy 6-- the Brazos River Valley
Member since Sep 2015
32096 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 7:50 pm to
quote:

Who pays for it

Who needs it?

Whatever their debt may be, just adjust it back to $0.0.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:13 pm to
Posted by LSUAngelHere1
Watson
Member since Jan 2018
10137 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:24 pm to
quote:

This thread is mostly a bunch of "End the Fed"

Govern me harder daddy.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:27 pm to
quote:

tinfoil illiterates.


So please explain to us, oh wise, rational and literate one, the exact mechanics of Quantitative Easing and please also explain the exact mechanics of it’s opposing policy counterpart, Quantitate Tightening.

Then please give us a detailed history of specifically when and where these mechanisms have been applied and further their success rate.

It all is so esoteric and complex for us thick-browed, drooling cretins to comprehend.



This post was edited on 11/29/23 at 8:29 pm
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134923 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 9:18 pm to
The link you provided is almost 2 months old. So if the Fed was in sooooo much trouble on October 2 why hasn’t there been any noticeable consequences since then? Instead, there’s been crickets. Because there is nothing there.

And once again your link to the Fed’s balance sheet does not show losses. If you’ve ever taken a basic accounting course (doubtful) you would know losses show up on an enterprise’s Income Statement not on its Balance Sheet. Do you even know what a Balance Sheet is?

Question: when Congress established the Federal Reserve system did the Act require the Fed to be profitable? Yes or no.

Fake news.
This post was edited on 11/29/23 at 9:36 pm
Posted by TerryDawg03
The Deep South
Member since Dec 2012
17966 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 9:58 pm to
quote:

She mentions operating losses then links to the Fed's balance sheet to prove it. The Fed's longer term bond holdings have lost market value as interest rates have risen.

That's NOT operating losses.


I respect your knowledge, Russian, and you're a solid poster. She does discuss the difference between capital losses and operating losses. She also discusses the unique accounting that the Fed uses that doesn't follow FASB.

quote:

The Fed’s capital losses are derived from its large bond portfolio of low-coupon US Treasury and mortgage-backed securities purchased in earlier times of low rates during the period of quantitative easing following the 2008–09 financial crisis. As the Fed has now raised interest rates in its efforts to reduce inflation, the market value of its bond portfolio has inevitably declined. Estimates of these capital losses range as high as $100 billion. The bond portfolio resides in the System Open Market Account, which is managed by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York on behalf of the entire Fed system.

The Fed’s operating losses, on the other hand, result when its expenses run higher than its revenues. The Fed’s revenues consist mostly of interest income on its large bond portfolio. The Fed’s expenses include payment of interest on commercial banks’ reserves on deposit at Fed district banks and reverse repurchase (repo) transactions with money market funds, as well as Fed overhead expenses such as the operations of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which is funded by the Fed rather than as an independent agency funded by Congress. The US Supreme Court is currently considering the constitutionality of this funding arrangement between the Fed and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.


quote:

The Fed’s operating and capital losses are genuine in both an accounting and an economic sense. Though the Federal Reserve has designed its own accounting rules rather than subscribing to those of the Financial Accounting Standards Board, the Fed’s own financial reports clearly show ongoing accounting losses by any metric.


I take it you don't subscribe to the Austrian school, which is fine, but I don't think the author is as boneheaded as you say.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134923 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 10:31 pm to
While it wouldn’t surprise me if the Fed has operating losses ongoing (it’s earning low interest on much of its investment assets while paying higher interest rates on much of its liabilities) my point was there was nothing in the OP’s links which showed those losses. And he still doesn’t understand that.

And a central bank is not intended to make a profit. Unique to a central bank is it can defer losses to be offset by profits in the future. Nothing to see here. The OP is sky screaming over a fake crisis.

Posted by stuntman
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
10883 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 11:32 pm to
quote:

Question: when Congress established the Federal Reserve system did the Act require the Fed to be profitable? Yes or no.


Don't you constantly insist that the Fed Reserve is a private institution?

Look, there is no doubt you're way more educated on finance and economics than a guy like me, who just owns a small pest control company, but some of this shite makes absolutely no sense at all.

What private company has its chairman chosen by government? What private company doesn't have to earn profits in order to stick around for 100 years? What private company had an act of congress to create it?
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11959 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 11:50 pm to
That’s not what he’s saying. They don’t have a federal mandate to manage their P&L in a certain way.
Posted by stuntman
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
10883 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 1:11 am to
I get that. I just can't seem to grasp how the Fed Reserve is a private bank.

It just has to be what I consider a private company and what others consider a private company are completely different things.

Russian is smart AF on these issues, and I'm just trying to get clarification on his reasoning for calling it a private bank.
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