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Started By
Message
re: Nunes: Formal, foreign surveillance was used on Trump; Obama admin surveilled associates
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:12 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:12 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
That probably goes double or a hundred fold when you are asking on behalf of the President of the US.
Obama has stated that he did not order the wiretaps at the Trump campaign.
1
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:12 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Nothing was leaked
That is simply a lie. There is no way in hell that you believe that.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:13 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:This...plus they unmasked the name of a US citizen - yet another felony.
Sigh. It's done that way on purpose. This is how O spied on nethanyahu. They are supposed to destroy the Intel collected incidentally, but they didnt. In Flynn's case they transcribed it and then leaked it to the press. A felony crime.
My thought experiment is this:
Why would Nunes mention the gathering of incidental intelligence from US citizens (masked or unmasked) and not himself be complicit in a felony?
Occum's answer: because he is disclosing what has already been leaked (and documented in numerous press accounts).
Ergo, the gathering, documenting, and leaking with identities of US citizens (members of Trump's campaign/transition) actually occurred.
Next questions: What did Obama and his administration do, what did they know, and when did they know it?
Next up in the box: Obama-gate deniers?
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:13 pm to cajunangelle
Yep. They need to regroup. Cannot admit Trump was correct....ever.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:13 pm to member12
quote:
Obama has stated
Plausible deniability is a myth.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:14 pm to cajunangelle
quote:
ABC News got them their talking points out quickly this morning saying some Russian grand poo bah was wiretapped NOT Trump. Because docs can prove Trump Tower was surveilled.
We've known this for awhile
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:14 pm to Adam Banks
quote:If the identities and conversations didn't have much intelligence value and they weren't involved in crimes, then yeah, that's a problem. The laws are structured to prevent dissemination of the identities of US persons unless that information is actually relevant.
From what I understood is that they were widely disseminated with the citizens name unmasked.
That is spying on a citizen. You can try and twist it but its not "incidental collection" at that point.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:15 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Nunes was on Trump's transition team and is in on it.
So now there is a conspiracy of the IC to cover "for" Trump? Dems twisting!!
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:15 pm to Salmon
That was also from what, 2013? Has nothing to do with this story best I can tell, and I can't even see how it'd be used in a media cover up.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:15 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Wait...am I reading the responses correctly. For weeks we hear "Trump needs to release the FISA warrant and all of this can go away". Now that there is confirmation a FISA warrant was issued the response is "we've known about this for a month. The FISA warrant isn't anything new"?
The existence of a FISA warrant on any higher level Trump campaign official is the existence that there was an attempt to spy on a political opponent.
That's the smoking gun.
There is not nor has there ever been any real proof or evidence of some kind of Russian connection. It was and still is a baseless conspiracy theory.
This post was edited on 3/22/17 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:16 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
If there is no intent to spy on Trump or Trump's people, then why is incidentally captured info being transcribed and leaked to the media when by law it is supposed to be destroyed immediately?
Because there are leakers. Always have been and always will be. Trump has been so divisive we have seen more leaks from his underlings
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:16 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
If the identities and conversations didn't have much intelligence value and they weren't involved in crimes, then yeah, that's a problem. The laws are structured to prevent dissemination of the identities of US persons unless that information is actually relevant.
quote:
Nunes said his new information appears to show that additional members of the Trump transition team — beyond former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn — were unmasked. This means they were identified in U.S. intelligence reports.
He said the information that he had seen and was disseminated across the intelligence community appeared to him to have "little or no apparent intelligence value.
Well then I expect you to strongly condemn the IC and obama administration
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:17 pm to BBONDS25
quote:That's not what Nunes said. For one thing, you can collect foreign intelligence without a warrant. Second, the claim about a FISA warrant is that one was directed at members of the Trump campaign, but that's also not what Nunes is saying.
Wait...am I reading the responses correctly. For weeks we hear "Trump needs to release the FISA warrant and all of this can go away". Now that there is confirmation a FISA warrant was issued the response is "we've known about this for a month. The FISA warrant isn't anything new"?
No shame.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:17 pm to member12
If there was a FISA warrant, Obama knew. You can quote plausible deniability all you want, but there's no way the president of the United States would not be aware of surveillance of a political opponent in an ongoing election. He let it happen.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:18 pm to Deuces
quote:
You can quote plausible deniability all you want, but there's no way the president of the United States would not be aware of surveillance of a political opponent in an ongoing election.
I'm not saying Obama didn't know. I'm just saying that he denied ordering the wiretap at Trump tower. He didn't deny that the wiretap existed. He didn't deny that he knew about it. He denied ordering it.
A FISA warrant on any higher up at the Trump campaign during an election year is proof that an attempt was made to surveil a rival campaign. That is pretty close to a smoking gun and begs a lot of inconvenient questions.
This post was edited on 3/22/17 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:18 pm to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
Because there are leakers. Always have been and always will be. Trump has been so divisive we have seen more leaks from his leftovers of the previous administrations.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:18 pm to Decatur
quote:
If I was Nunes I'd be careful about briefing anything to the President or his staff. I don't have to think to hard to imagine scenarios where obstruction of justice could be implicated.
Nunes is the chair of the committee. He has access to all classified info from all the agencies. He has been briefed by Comey himself numerous times in classified sessions. He knows what Comey has.
It is reasonable to assume, then, that he doesn't fear "obstruction" because he knows the investigation is a big nothing burger.
Sen. Grassley already tweeted that the investigation has nothing to do with Trump himself, but with former associates. Since Trump isn't even being investigated, then Nunes would know that. This means he has nothing to fear by meeting with Trump.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:19 pm to member12
He could have ordered to stop it.
What did Obama know and when did he know it!?!?!?!?!?!
What did Obama know and when did he know it!?!?!?!?!?!
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:19 pm to shinerfan
quote:These new reports were unknown to Nunes until he was given them. He said that the White House was unaware and that none of it was reported on.
quote:
Nothing was leaked
That is simply a lie. There is no way in hell that you believe that.
If they were leaked they were leaked to someone who didn't tell anyone.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 1:20 pm to member12
quote:
I'm not saying Obama didn't know. I'm just saying that he denied ordering the wiretap at Trump tower. He didn't deny that the wiretap existed. He didn't deny that he knew about it. He denied ordering it.
That wasn't really directed at you, but I do agree with you. It's legal semantics. What Trump means by "Obama had me wire tapped" basically can cover "Obama and his people had me wiretapped."
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