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re: Milton Friedman quotes on protective tariffs
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:13 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:13 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Friedman is not right on everything. He’s a theorist and he can be wrong.
He takes a pure view of global trade and economics on a macro and micro all encompassing approach. He completely discounts the roles of other governments, currency manipulation, cronyism, bad actors, and other factors.
Some of his theories remind me of the Coase theorem that is taught in most 1L common law property courses. Rational and theoretical, yes. Practical and indicative, no. Why? Specifically because it assumes people will act rationally and discounts the very human factors that distort it.
He takes a pure view of global trade and economics on a macro and micro all encompassing approach. He completely discounts the roles of other governments, currency manipulation, cronyism, bad actors, and other factors.
Some of his theories remind me of the Coase theorem that is taught in most 1L common law property courses. Rational and theoretical, yes. Practical and indicative, no. Why? Specifically because it assumes people will act rationally and discounts the very human factors that distort it.
1
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:13 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:
well then you text them and tell them to go tell that to canada, europe and chyna for their tariffs.
Countries regularly promote irrational policies they see as being protections for domestic economies or certain populations.
Doesn't make the policies efficient or a net positive.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:15 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
He takes a pure view of global trade and economics on a macro and micro all encompassing approach. He completely discounts the roles of other governments, currency manipulation, cronyism, bad actors, and other factors.
But he really doesn't. Well I don't know about "bad actors" because that's not really defined.
quote:
Specifically because it assumes people will act rationally and discounts the very human factors that distort it.
He wrote a good deal about the self-serving policies of places like China and how they often are good for us, especially their actions to subsidize their industries to keep their export prices low. It's a double win for us.
ETA: as I stated earlier, that efficiency does come at a cost (losing more out-dated jobs), but it's a cost we are already bearing (by advancing our economy otherwise).
This post was edited on 8/18/23 at 7:17 pm
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:15 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Tariffs are tax on the consumer just like inflation is a tax. Taxes suck.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:18 pm to frogtown
quote:
Who actually pays the tariff?
again prices were fine for me. you saying i was paying the tariff because the commies jacked up the sell price to make up for export tariffs? we never saw that.
on american made goods? there is no export tariff for chyna if made here. it is american made.
ya know how you fix that if export prices from chyna are up to accomodate the tariff? stop buying their shite.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:20 pm to Timeoday
quote:
Yes he did. But we still have to manage the unions that love taking advantage of their members.
Watched an NYC pothole filling road crew one day a while back. The pothole was about 3' in size. Three trucks came with a crew of 7. One guy spent an hour filling the whole and one of the crew pretended to sweep some things in the area. I've seen worse though.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:20 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
It’s IB Freeman! So who’s altar is who’s?
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:27 pm to Timeoday
You know, prior to the “temporary” federal income tax being instituted, this country managed to live on tariffs and excise taxes and still stay in budget. Whilst wringing our hands over the mention of tariffs, I think it bears mentioning that VATs are added to our goods when they arrive in Europe and elsewhere yet to the best of my knowledge, we levy no taxes on imported goods into the states.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:28 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:
stop buying their shite.
I'll never understand why y'all are so dedicated to promoting socialism for the stated purpose of devolving our economy.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:29 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
If everyone is playing by the same rules, Friedman is correct.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:31 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
But but my unskilled, lower level union manufacturing jobs! We must devolve our economy to save them from adapting to modern life! Bootstraps don't exist for them!
I bet if it was lawyers, doctors, IT specialists, college professors, corporate CEOs, CFOs, CIOs etc. pouring across the southern border that sonsabitch would have been locked down decades ago....amirite?
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:31 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:
again prices were fine for me. you saying i was paying the tariff because the commies jacked up the sell price to make up for export tariffs? we never saw that.
The consumers end up paying the tariff(tax).
China doesn't pay.
Just want to make sure MAGA folk, like yourself, realize that.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:35 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
I bet if it was lawyers, doctors, IT specialists, college professors, corporate CEOs, CFOs, CIOs etc. pouring across the southern border that sonsabitch would have been locked down decades ago....amirite?
Adapt or die.
AI is going to kill a lot of lawyer jobs over the next 10 years. That efficiency that AI creates will open up economic avenues for those who adapt. You have to stay ahead or change fields.
I believe in freedom (Capitalism). That used to be called being American.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I bet if it was lawyers, doctors, IT specialists, college professors, corporate CEOs, CFOs, CIOs etc. pouring across the southern border that sonsabitch would have been locked down decades ago....amirite?
Adapt or die.
AI is going to kill a lot of lawyer jobs over the next 10 years. That efficiency that AI creates will open up economic avenues for those who adapt. You have to stay ahead or change fields.
I believe in freedom (Capitalism). That used to be called being American.
You take your stance because you know your job isn't at stake, if it was you would be whining like a little school girl.
I'm not for protecting every person's job from advancements in automation or competition. However, off shoring the US manufacturing and industrial segment of the US economy to China and other parts of the globe has not only cost the US millions of good paying middle class jobs it's also put our nation at risk because much of the imports we now rely on are critical to our everyday lives and we currently have no manufacturing/industrial capacity to replace those imports if they are disrupted.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:54 pm to SlowFlowPro
Tariffs aren’t the only way to level field.
There will be a tipping point where our wealth isn’t enough to stem the onslaught of the world consolidating monetary policies. Our allies are focused on their country/region.. The impending AI economy renders most current theoretical models obsolete. We should debate and seek out what the next phase will look like and we should look to ensuring our economic place at the table
There will be a tipping point where our wealth isn’t enough to stem the onslaught of the world consolidating monetary policies. Our allies are focused on their country/region.. The impending AI economy renders most current theoretical models obsolete. We should debate and seek out what the next phase will look like and we should look to ensuring our economic place at the table
Posted on 8/18/23 at 7:58 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
You take your stance because you know your job isn't at stake
No. I've already had other sidelines and am always trying to stay liquid enough to purchase non-legal companies.
I have a few non-legal companies I'm percolating in my head right now to build organically, as well.
Adapt or die.
I don't want to be going to court in 5 years.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 8:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
losing more out-dated jobs
The vast amounts of poor, unskilled people that are on government assistance goes against your point. We have plenty of people to do them if we stop giving them money.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 8:35 pm to LSUSUPERSTAR
quote:
The vast amounts of poor, unskilled people that are on government assistance goes against your point.
No. They're just lazy and/or refuse to learn basic skills.
Plenty of work for skilled tradesman these days.
No welfare would help motivate them, sure, but their refusal to learn a skill is their own fault.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 8:45 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
One thing I never got about free trade theory is that Friedman spent all this time arguing that it’s more efficient, grows the coming, etc. - but that was never the reason people objected to it.
They object to it primarily because
1. Most people don’t want to live in the most efficient economy possible. They want to work in a field and raise a family, not retrain or switch jobs every time someone somewhere in the globe is able to do it cheaper. Add changed in tech since the 1970s and the economy is just moving too fast to have a stable society.
2. There are things we need to produce here for national security. What was done to US Steel in the name of free trade is essentially treason
They object to it primarily because
1. Most people don’t want to live in the most efficient economy possible. They want to work in a field and raise a family, not retrain or switch jobs every time someone somewhere in the globe is able to do it cheaper. Add changed in tech since the 1970s and the economy is just moving too fast to have a stable society.
2. There are things we need to produce here for national security. What was done to US Steel in the name of free trade is essentially treason
Posted on 8/18/23 at 8:46 pm to SlowFlowPro
There’s a difference between someone who doesn’t want to work in an area where there are jobs to be had. It’s another thing entirely when entire regions lose their jobs at the same time. Go to the rust belt or Appalachia and tell those folks they are lazy losers to their faces
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