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re: Milton Friedman quotes on protective tariffs
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:43 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:43 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
I would be interested in how Friedman would respond to an economy whose prime industrial driver is a hostile, communist nation who is building a very large military off the money and resources we've ceded to them.
Globalism also has its negative consequences and we're starting to experience them.
Globalism also has its negative consequences and we're starting to experience them.
2
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:45 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
So it does bother you that Desantis wants tariffs just like Trump?
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:45 am to AUCom96
quote:
I would be interested in how Friedman would respond to an economy whose prime industrial driver is a hostile, communist nation who is building a very large military off the money and resources we've ceded to them.
Probably the same way everyone who believes in markets, allowing industry and individuals to trade as they see fit vs the government planning and protecting their profits.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:49 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Probably the same way everyone who believes in markets, allowing industry and individuals to trade as they see fit vs the government planning and protecting their profits.
All you have is a monopolized global plutocracy. This idea of free trade markets is a pile of horseshite precisely because politics has been bought and turned to the same sort of manipulation you accuse "protectionists" of wanting. The x factor in this is that the third world shitholes needed to drive this train aren't tame and we'll pay for that soon enough.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:52 am to AUCom96
quote:
All you have is a monopolized global plutocracy.
Only if you distrust the motive of buyers. You have it wrong, individuals benefit from lower wages and cost, not the other way around.
China will collapse regardless of what we do simply because their economy is a house of cards built on empty condos and copying our tech.
quote:
The x factor in this is that the third world shitholes needed to drive this train aren't tame and we'll pay for that soon enough.
If it means loss of global hegemony, I'm for it.
MAGA wants the government to be the arbitrator of trade, thats left wing babble.
This post was edited on 8/19/23 at 7:56 am
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:52 am to AUCom96
quote:
I would be interested in how Friedman would respond to an economy whose prime industrial driver is a hostile, communist nation who is building a very large military off the money and resources we've ceded to them.
The reason why China is not a military threat to the US is the volume of trade between the countries.
Trade is a much bigger (and exponentially more efficient) deterrent to war than military threat. That's why outside of the Middle East and sectarian conflicts (which rarely became Cold War proxy conflicts), war has been so rare post-WW2. It's basically non-existent in the developed world.
quote:
Globalism also has its negative consequences and we're starting to experience them.
Sure there are negative externalities and the market can work in response to correct them. You don't need the government to do so.
It did take a worldwide pandemic to really show these negative externalities, also, which is an exterme outlier.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:54 am to AUCom96
quote:
The x factor in this is that the third world shitholes needed to drive this train aren't tame and we'll pay for that soon enough.
Wut
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:54 am to SDVTiger
quote:
So it does bother you that Desantis wants tariffs just like Trump?
If I hadn't already discarded him, this probably would have done it.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:54 am to SlowFlowPro
It goes way beyond the argument of price and unskilled labor. The discussions and arguments revolve around the changing economic model when AI and eventually automation come online as to render labor pointless.. debating some guard rails and protectionism to safeguard our economy and more importantly our basic tenets of freedom afforded by our government needs to evolve beyond modern economic theory.. china and the like treat the economy as a battleground with no rules where they don’t hold the same idea of basic freedom
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:56 am to TROLA
quote:
It goes way beyond the argument of price and unskilled labor. The discussions and arguments revolve around the changing economic model when AI and eventually automation come online as to render labor pointless..
The jobs MAGA wants to save will be automated. Its not worth the fight.
quote:
hina and the like treat the economy as a battleground
Which does not benefit them in the long run.
China does not have the intellectual capital to provide the high tech services for the future. The manufacturing economy is for developing nations, which China seems to be perpetually "developing."
This post was edited on 8/19/23 at 8:00 am
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:56 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
China will collapse regardless of what we do simply because their economy is a house of cards built on empty condos and copying our tech.
*and relying on this lower level manufacturing MAGA loves so dearly, because it can only scale by increasing population.
Advanced industries can scale intrinsically. Lower-level industries cannot. The best they can do is get slightly more efficient, but the reason why these jobs aren't valuable is because the output is pretty static (and without economic impact and highly fungible)
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:58 am to TROLA
quote:
The discussions and arguments revolve around the changing economic model when AI and eventually automation come online as to render labor pointless.
Which paradigm would handle this better:
1. A more educated and skilled population who has adopted to advanced industries.
2. A less educated and skilled population who devotes an inordinate amount of its population to lower-level industries.
quote:
china and the like treat the economy as a battleground with no rules where they don’t hold the same idea of basic freedom
And they are a good lesson in why we shouldn't follow in their socialistic, interventionist model.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:59 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The jobs MAGA wants to save will be automated
Exactly. The "AI" argument makes the policy of investing so heavily to increase those jobs borderline insane
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:00 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
And they are a good lesson in why we shouldn't follow in their socialistic, interventionist model.
China is sinking, yet MAGA thinks the USA is falling to China.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If I hadn't already discarded him, this probably would have done it
quote:
Never Back Down
@NvrBackDown24
Ron DeSantis says he'd use tariffs to hold China accountable on trade.
Well i better not see you supporting him now
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:09 am to SDVTiger
quote:
Well i better not see you supporting him now
I haven't for like, 2 months
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:09 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The reason why China is not a military threat to the US is the volume of trade between the countries.
Yeah... Centuries of history to prove this point wrong.
quote:
Trade is a much bigger (and exponentially more efficient) deterrent to war than military threat. That's why outside of the Middle East and sectarian conflicts (which rarely became Cold War proxy conflicts), war has been so rare post-WW2. It's basically non-existent in the developed world.
Except for every Proxy war during and after the cold war. Financial sanction haven't deterred nations with leaders that must retain their internal positions of power.
quote:
It did take a worldwide pandemic to really show these negative externalities, also, which is an exterme outlier.
It was an outlier... that you can group with banking and currency crises as well.
I'm a free market guy as much as the rest, but projection of military deterrent is an absolute necessity.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:15 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
“There are people who don’t have jobs because of tariffs.”
That is true.
It sucks to be China…and IB Screamin.
That is true.
It sucks to be China…and IB Screamin.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:20 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
It sucks to be China
It always has.
They have almost entirely empty cities with buildings that are never meant to be lived in because of their ridiculous house of cards. They're built for wealth, not living in.
The secret behind China's empty cities.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:22 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
China is sinking, yet MAGA thinks the USA is falling to China.
They are correct. Trade with China has been a net negative for the US overall.
Individual US companies cannot compete with Chinese companies that can be fully subsidized by the CCP. Additionally, China not only has “Most Favored Nation” status, it also is exempt from the Paris Climate Accords. Throw in IP theft, currency manipulation, and an inability to effectively sue Chinese companies in China, and the deck is stacked against the US.
As for “China failing,” I will believe it when I see it. If you mention the collapse of the housing industry there, then your argument is pointless. The housing bubble bursting would be a great thing for the CCP. Bad for America, but great for the CCP.
ETA - I see you mentioned it in the post above this one.
This post was edited on 8/19/23 at 8:25 am
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