re: Is there even a definition of "conservative" anymore? When did you start promoting it?

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so the argument is to use tyranny to ensure there isn't enough freedom (or to enforce morality) to avoid tyranny?

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It's a tough balance to achieve long term (and I think entropy is inevitable), but it's basic social contract theory. Ideally it's a social contract that results from a relatively homogenous, like-minded people with a shared morality. With the understanding that certain freedoms must be forfeited to achieve social order. That, in my opinion, is not tyranny.

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Is liberalism? Is any political label?

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Some are, but not "liberalism" or "conservativism". Those labels have been hijacked as general labels for Republicans and Democrats, and unfortunately no longer reference a coherent set of policy ideals.

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Some are, but not "liberalism" or "conservativism". Those labels have been hijacked as general labels for Republicans and Democrats, and unfortunately no longer reference a coherent set of policy ideals.

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One could argue, "liberalism" even more so.

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Totally wrong (and I did not down vote). What you're talking about is the 'my team' group. In the real world no more than half of conservatives are team rather than true ideology. But on this board it's more like 10% are team. There is much more serious philosophy on this board than at Wal-Mart.

And Democrats are MUCH more team than philosophy. It goes all the way back to 'GOP is for the rich man and Dems are for the working man.' Hell, that's what Biden is pushing right now just like it was 100 years ago. Dems do not think. They feel.

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Look, I hear you about Democrats. They scapegoat "the rich" because that is a convenient bogeyman for both their progressive wing, which truly hates the rich, and the neoliberal wing, which is actually comprised of the rich but pretends to hate the rich to secure working class and minority votes.

My issue with your assertion that conservatives are more about ideology than team lies with the examples I've already laid out. Conservatives LOVED the CIA, FBI, and military-industrial complex during the Bush years because they controlled them all. Now conservatives (especially on this board) viscerally hate the former two because they're being weaponized by neoliberals (and increasingly progressives). The recent shift toward classical liberal ideas by "conservatives" is one of convenience, not ideology.

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I am more conservative in my day to day life, but honestly think things like the war on Drugs has been a complete disaster and I dont care if dudes want to get married.

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There is nothing conservative about 5 people defining marriage for the entire United States. You can be pro gay marriage (I'm not, FWIW) and still recognize that, just like Roe, it was judicial tyranny. If you recognize that but don't care because you agree with the decision, then I question how conservative you are in any aspect.

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One could argue, "liberalism" even more so.

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Probably yes, because it's used incorrectly by progressives to mask their own ideology and used incorrectly by Republicans to smear Democrats.

The founders were liberals. True liberals. Hell, look at the first paragraph of Wiki's entry for liberalism (note that there's nothing in there about giant surveillance states, social "equity", overregulation, etc.):

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Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support free markets, free trade, limited government, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), capitalism, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.

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Globalism is NOT conservatism

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Whats your definition of globalism?

Tarrifs aren't conservative. They are a traditional leftist tool.

Good luck. There are a few Trump fans who have tried to stitch together a philosophy out of the gossamer threads of Trump's tweets, but it's a fool's errand.

Trump pushed "fair" trade and secure borders and actually implemented a pretty strong tax reform. But that isn't what he is about.

Trump was about punching leftist media and politicians in the nose and not letting up. And that resounded with a lot of people who are tired of coastal, leftist, academic elites telling them they are racist, sexist, terrible people and dragging down the country into a garbage pit of cultural marxism.

But that isn't a philosophy, that's a gut reaction. It doesn't tell you how to govern, it tells you what to attack.

The Trump ideology, such as it is, is to attack your enemies.

And attack your allies who might be enemies the most.

It is powerful, but ultimately self-defeating without some core principles to guide it.

As for my definition, LSUpimp described it better than I would. Libertarianism but with a need to protect and preserve key traditional non government institutions like family, religion, and patriotism.

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not true conservatives. I frickign hated them then and hate them now. Only now im considered a constitutional libertarian on the political scale because idiots have moved what conservativism is.

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You're using the No True Scotsman fallacy. Damn near 100% of politicians who ran as "conservatives" in 2000 voted for the PATRIOT Act and the wild expansion of the surveillance state. The issue with conservatism is that it is, by definition, relative. A conservative in 1776 favored traditional values and institutions, which at the time were represented by the British empire. A conservative in 1940 favored non-interventionism and a small military, since both of those were well-established traditional features of American politics. A conservative in 2000 favored an enormous military and a huge government, since those were traditional features of government for half a century.

well i would define a conservative as your classic definition of liberalism

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Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support free markets, free trade, limited government, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), capitalism, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.

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but also someone that promotes the nuclear family and traditional american ideas from the 50-80s.

items mandated in the constitution like national defense should be strong, very fricking strong, but limited in oversees actions to items congress approves and only if war is declared.