- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Is there even a definition of "conservative" anymore? When did you start promoting it?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:51 pm to 93and99
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:51 pm to 93and99
quote:
Why do people like you get a boner when we prop up other countries with taxpayer money?
Why do you think that I'm a fan of foreign aid?
Why are you trying to turn a discussion about the definition of "conservatism" and related words into a discussion about my political beliefs? Why is your brain wired to require my beliefs to discuss?
1
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:52 pm to SlowFlowPro
"Like with all presidents, Trump reduced some regulations and added regulations in other areas."
While literally true, it obscures the more important that Trump slashed regulations significantly.
While literally true, it obscures the more important that Trump slashed regulations significantly.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:56 pm to lsu777
quote:That makes you a liberal by definition, which has a set of concrete (and not relative) values despite the misuse of the term today. You consider liberal values to be "conservative" because those are the specific values you seek to conserve. The issue is that you can't, by definition, "conserve" values that have largely been eroded or superseded.
well i would define a conservative as your classic definition of liberalism
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:59 pm to N.O. via West-Cal
quote:
While literally true, it obscures the more important that Trump slashed regulations significantly.
i think political bias permits you to see as many/few as you wish, depending on whether you want to praise/criticize him
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:00 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Are you attempting to assert that one can't logically be a "Trump-fan" and also "identify as conservative"?
No, but that a large segment of his most emotional/rabid base promotes policies that would not be associated with conservatism or the GOP in any modern context, yet proclaim, quite loudly, that theyare the ideologically pure
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:08 pm to TideCPA
quote:
My issue with your assertion that conservatives are more about ideology than team lies with the examples I've already laid out. Conservatives LOVED the CIA, FBI, and military-industrial complex during the Bush years because they controlled them all. Now conservatives (especially on this board) viscerally hate the former two because they're being weaponized by neoliberals (and increasingly progressives). The recent shift toward classical liberal ideas by "conservatives" is one of convenience, not ideology.
No, you still do not understand VOTING MOTIVATION. Is it 'TEAM' or 'PHILOSOPHY'. A team voter doesn't care about the CIA or the FBI or the MIC. The team voter only votes for one thing: DEM or GOP. That's it.
The idea that 95% of self identified conservatives go into an election saying 'Hell, I don't know what issues are. I'm just voting for the guy who says he's for the conservatives and against the liberals.'
There are almost ZERO people like this on this board. That's why the people here give some much hate to the republicans who don't tow the conservative line philosophically.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:12 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Tarrifs aren't conservative. They are a traditional leftist tool.
Taxes aren't conservative either. We didn't used to have income tax. Do you know what we had? Tariffs.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:17 pm to Zach
quote:
No, you still do not understand VOTING MOTIVATION. Is it 'TEAM' or 'PHILOSOPHY'. A team voter doesn't care about the CIA or the FBI or the MIC. The team voter only votes for one thing: DEM or GOP. That's it.
quote:
There are almost ZERO people like this on this board. That's why the people here give some much hate to the republicans who don't tow the conservative line philosophically.
The problem is literally none of these supposedly "philosophical conservatives" can clearly articulate what exactly that philosophy entails. And the reason for that is because conservative philosophy, BY DEFINITION, is relative to its current opposition. It is defined by its opponents. Refer to my post above. Conservatives, by definition, support the preservation of long-standing traditional values and institutions. That's why conservatives in 1940 would absolutely balk at the modern US military, but also why conservatives in 2000 had no qualms with passing the PATRIOT Act. Because in 1940, the traditional military was moderate in size and scale (at most), yet in 2000 an enormous surveillance state had been a decades-long tradition.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:19 pm to Zach
quote:What was the relative size of the US military the last time we had no income tax?
Taxes aren't conservative either. We didn't used to have income tax. Do you know what we had? Tariffs.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:21 pm to TideCPA
quote:
What was the relative size of the US military the last time we had no income tax?
WTF does that have to do with the relative conservativeness of income v. tariff?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:28 pm to TideCPA
quote:
The problem is literally none of these supposedly "philosophical conservatives" can clearly articulate what exactly that philosophy entails
Yes they can. If you can't understand it that's your problem.
quote:
And the reason for that is because conservative philosophy, BY DEFINITION, is relative to its current opposition
No, I've already explained the basics. They don't change regardless of opposition.
quote:
Conservatives, by definition, support the preservation of long-standing traditional values and institutions.
No. If the long standing tradition of the US was communism then conservatives would oppose it. It has nothing to do with SQ. You're 75 years behind in your terms.
quote:
That's why conservatives in 1940 would absolutely balk at the modern US military,
No. It's the exact opposite.
quote:
but also why conservatives in 2000 had no qualms with passing the PATRIOT Act.
No. Tons of them had qualms.
It would take me at least 2 hours with a chalk board to explain to you why you're wrong about team v. philosophy and what conservatism is. Zach must leave soon.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:28 pm to Zach
quote:It matters when defining what traditions are being "conserved" in the definition of conservatism. If conservativism involves tariffs and low (or no) federal income tax because the U.S. traditionally had tariffs and low (or no) federal income taxes, then wouldn't the same logic apply to the relative size of the military? At no point in the country's history have we had extremely low income tax rates and the world's preeminent military. If you favor both then you're trying to conserve something that never existed.
WTF does that have to do with the relative conservativeness of income v. tariff?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:30 pm to TideCPA
quote:
Conservatives LOVED the CIA, FBI, and military-industrial complex during the Bush years because they controlled them all. Now conservatives (especially on this board) viscerally hate the former two because they're being weaponized by neoliberals
Now do progressives.
Trumpism and progressivism share some tendencies.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:32 pm to TideCPA
quote:
It matters when defining what traditions are being "conserved" in the definition of conservatism.
For the 1,000th time on this board. 'Conservatism' has NOTHING TO DO WITH CONSERVING. The philosophy is ROLE OF GOVT vs. FREEDOM. Do you understand?
If we are communist (and we're getting there) then wanting communism to be conserved is not what conservatives would support.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 3:11 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Is there even a definition of "conservative" anymore?
Common Sense...
it really is that simple..
Posted on 5/12/21 at 3:13 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
at a certain point, that becomes conservatism and what you're describing is something completely different. that's exactly what i'm arguing
Your shitty definition of conservatism doesn’t define conservatism.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 3:40 pm to BigJim
"Libertarianism but with a need to protect and preserve key traditional non government institutions like family, religion, and patriotism."
This is a pretty good, high-level summary of what I think of as "core" conservative values today. You include the traditional Burkean notions with the preservation of key institutions and rope in much of the rest with libertarianism, or at least valuing liberty heavily when balancing against other government goals such as order. I would argue that favoring smaller and more local government is also a form of valuing liberty.
This is a pretty good, high-level summary of what I think of as "core" conservative values today. You include the traditional Burkean notions with the preservation of key institutions and rope in much of the rest with libertarianism, or at least valuing liberty heavily when balancing against other government goals such as order. I would argue that favoring smaller and more local government is also a form of valuing liberty.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 3:52 pm to the808bass
quote:
Your shitty definition of conservatism doesn’t define conservatism.
when was the last "conservative" leader of the House and Senate, in your opinion?
do you consider Reagan conservative? Nixon? Eisenhower?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 3:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
when was the last "conservative" leader of the House and Senate, in your opinion?
House: Gingrich
Senate: Lott
Page 8 of 10
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News