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Is there even a definition of "conservative" anymore? When did you start promoting it?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 10:59 am
Posted on 5/12/21 at 10:59 am
I think I've made this thread before, but I'm pretty sure that it was before Trump lost the election and certainly before January 6. Now with the GOP seeming to be splintering, I keep seeing people talk about "conservatism" and how the GOP isn't conservative...but the GOP hasn't really changed much (and many ways in which it was slower to adapt to modern culture was usurped by Trump's leftism, which is now being packaged as conservatism...see: gay marriage).
It seems that Trump followers are post-moderning "conservative" to suit Trump, and not in any real sense of ideals. For a follow up question to "conservatives", when did you start outwardly proclaiming these neo-conservative ideas? Was it prior to Trump? Can you show some posting pre-2015 on here where you support these changes? Was your definition of "RINO" big spender? If so, how is Trump not the biggest RINO in American history?
What are the set principles and ideals of "conservatism"? If free trade is no longer a conservative idea, then don't just say "fair trade". You need to explain what that actually is, and historical support for government manipulation of markets being "conservative". If you think that gay marriage is not conservative, then how do you reconcile your support of Trump? etc. etc. etc.
Basically, what are conservative values/ideals, when did you start displaying them, and how much of a relation is Trump to these?
It seems that Trump followers are post-moderning "conservative" to suit Trump, and not in any real sense of ideals. For a follow up question to "conservatives", when did you start outwardly proclaiming these neo-conservative ideas? Was it prior to Trump? Can you show some posting pre-2015 on here where you support these changes? Was your definition of "RINO" big spender? If so, how is Trump not the biggest RINO in American history?
What are the set principles and ideals of "conservatism"? If free trade is no longer a conservative idea, then don't just say "fair trade". You need to explain what that actually is, and historical support for government manipulation of markets being "conservative". If you think that gay marriage is not conservative, then how do you reconcile your support of Trump? etc. etc. etc.
Basically, what are conservative values/ideals, when did you start displaying them, and how much of a relation is Trump to these?
31
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
What are the set principles and ideals of "conservatism"?
I would like to at least think deregulation and tax cuts...things Trump ran on in 2016.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:02 am to SlowFlowPro
Ronald Reagan = Donald Trump = Conservatism
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:04 am to how333
quote:
Barry fricking Goldwater = Ronald Reagan = Donald Trump = Conservatism
FIFY
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:04 am to c on z
quote:
I would like to at least think deregulation and tax cuts...things Trump ran on in 2016.
Trump didn't fully run on deregulation. He was a yuge proponent of tariffs and other similar regulations.
Again, why I'm asking for fully-formed ideals and policies.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:05 am to Wtodd
Donald Turmp and Barry Goldwater have very little overlap in policies.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Basically, what are conservative values/ideals
Rush as on radio for 30 years explaining it everyday
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
SlowFlowPro
do you think DeSantis is conservative?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:07 am to SlowFlowPro
I would say that I started to truly define my views as conservative around 2008 when I started listening to Ron Paul. I was in high school at the time, but listening to him speak about disentangling ourselves from pointless and costly wars, getting our fiscal policy and spending under control, and reigning in entitlement spending and federal spending generally, helped me to discern what part of the "conservative platform" I actually cared about. I always viewed the evangelical part of the GOP platform as a lost cause. Was against gay marriage at the time, but not passionately so.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:07 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Donald Turmp and Barry Goldwater have very little overlap in policies.
You can't jump 60 yrs and expect things to be identical....hell there's not a lot similarities between Goldwater and Reagan....and Reagan wasn't the end all be all conservative either.
Want to know the common denominator with all 3? America fricking First
This post was edited on 5/12/21 at 11:08 am
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:08 am to ApexTiger
quote:
Rush as on radio for 30 years explaining it everyday
Rush supported NAFTA in real time
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:09 am to SlowFlowPro
My view of conservatism started when I was 10 years old and started reading WFB's National Review every month at the local library.
My simple explanation has not changed. The left/right line is a measurement of the power of govt over the freedom of the individual. Everything else flows from that.
I've always said that the worst profanity I ever hear uttered IRL is: 'Ya know, there really ought to be a law against .......'
My simple explanation has not changed. The left/right line is a measurement of the power of govt over the freedom of the individual. Everything else flows from that.
I've always said that the worst profanity I ever hear uttered IRL is: 'Ya know, there really ought to be a law against .......'
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:09 am to Wtodd
quote:
You can't jump 60 yrs and expect things to be identical
Why not?
quote:
hell there's not a lot similarities between Goldwater and Reagan
Well...yeah
quote:
Want to know the common denominator with all 3? America fricking First
Ok but this literally answers nothing. I'm asking for policies and their historical support, not generic platitudes
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:09 am to bricksandstones
quote:
I always viewed the evangelical part of the GOP platform as a lost cause.
Well they still believe in mobilizing that crowd.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:10 am to chalmetteowl
quote:
do you think DeSantis is conservative?
I only know stuff about him posted on here, which is a terrible barometer. I may get time this afternoon to look at his actual record. But it kind of becomes irrelevant if Trump-fans are destroying language like Leftists, making "conservative" be whatever they want for that particular discussion.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If free trade is no longer a conservative idea, then don't just say "fair trade".
Free trade is the ideal, but it cannot exist if other countries do not accept it. I have traditionally opposed tariffs, but Trump's method of handling tariffs to push toward free trade WORKED, and would continue working. He's the first president I've seen who actually used tariffs in an effective and fair way. I never would have supported the use of tariffs in the past, but he showed me that they can be used effectively and in a way that actually supports conservative principles. The idea is to push further toward free trade by playing by the same rules other countries impose on us. Free trade cannot be a one way street. It really isn't complicated, and isn't at all in conflict with conservative ideals.
quote:
If you think that gay marriage is not conservative, then how do you reconcile your support of Trump?
Your question here makes no sense. Trump was the biggest defender of religious freedom that we've had in the White House in decades, including when it comes to the topic of gay marriage. Gay marriage has always been allowed, it just hasn't been recognized by the government. This is a very important distinction that those who want to lie about this issue have always ignored. Getting the government to recognize gay marriage was never about equality, it was always about forced acceptance (see: Colorado cake baker). Trump defended against that. He was extremely conservative in this way.
quote:
Was your definition of "RINO" big spender? If so, how is Trump not the biggest RINO in American history?
You're going to need to be more specific here.
This post was edited on 5/12/21 at 11:17 am
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:12 am to SlowFlowPro
This it what you simpletons don’t understand . That while trump was hugely better than the field of others who ran it’s what he show us both directly and indirectly about Washington . While we knew how broken Washington is it was the levels that Washington swamp would go to to get rid of Trump. Just look at the corruption in the media as well hiding Biden * stupidity and his cohorts, the shitt other countries are pulling on Americans because of this administration as well as the domestic crap
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Trump didn't fully run on deregulation
This is absolutely false. Trump talked all the time about the difficulty of dealing with regulations. One of his first EO was 13771, which directed agencies to repeal two existing regulations for every new regulation, and to do so in such a way that the total cost of regulations does not increase.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:15 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Why not?
Bc it's an impossibility in ANY era for any party
American First covers economics, military and foreign policy, so technically it's a policy direction or end goal.
TBH there are no conservatives any longer except maybe Rand.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:17 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Barry Goldwater have very little overlap in policies.
You’re only up to two downvotes. I am shocked. Majority of this board would say Goldwater is a NeoCon RINO scum who Trump need to go scorched earth on.
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