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Started By
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re: Is there even a definition of "conservative" anymore? When did you start promoting it?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i've cited historical examples throughout this thread to show that "Trumpism" hasn't been seen as "conservative" for at least 60 years
Ok? What does that have to do with voting for Trump when the alternative is Jeb Bush or Joe Biden? Trump was never a fiscal conservative and didn't sell himself as a fiscal conservative. But that's only one aspect of a label that involves a lot of different issues. The border is one, protecting Christianity from government intrusion is one, reducing red tape is one, and I could go on. You act as if this is some digital label that applies 100% or 0%, and that's childish.
I don't care if you just want to be argumentative with "trumpkins", but be honest about it.
1
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if it didn't matter, they wouldn't warp language so much to fit Trump into the label
Who do you feel accurately fits the label?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
When did the police "encroach" into Trump's life?
I have read your posts and am still waiting for who you think is conservative.
Trump was far more conservative on the border and globalism than the trash you like.
I have read your posts and am still waiting for who you think is conservative.
Trump was far more conservative on the border and globalism than the trash you like.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:03 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
The biggest difference was, Goldwater didn't get elected.
I get that, but Trump also didn't win re-election and I don't think any of his acolytes stand a chance given the post-election nonsense (that 100% is associated with Trumpism, especially if we completely ignore 1/6/21, which came after the GA embarrassment)
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:04 pm to SlowFlowPro
This is going to get downvoted to hell, but for 95%+ of people who consider themselves "conservative", the best way to define their political beliefs is "measured opposition to Democrats". Their identity is tied directly to Democrats by virtue of a two-party system. The only reason "conservatives" in 2021 appear to favor small government and dislike institutions like the CIA and FBI is because they haven't controlled them for well over a decade. "Conservatives" under Bush were the biggest cheerleaders for things like the PATRIOT Act.
The Democrat party has waffled between a neoliberal wing and a progressive wing for a long time. When the progressives are driving Democrat policy, "conservatives" turn into classical liberals, because that represents the polar opposite of progressivism. When neoliberals are driving policy, "conservatives" show increasing support for more government interventionism via social regulations.
The Democrat party has waffled between a neoliberal wing and a progressive wing for a long time. When the progressives are driving Democrat policy, "conservatives" turn into classical liberals, because that represents the polar opposite of progressivism. When neoliberals are driving policy, "conservatives" show increasing support for more government interventionism via social regulations.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the label is valuable, as seen by people pretending like the "real conservative" badge truly matters in this very thread
It clearly matters to you just as much. Why?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:06 pm to Flats
quote:
Ok? What does that have to do with voting for Trump when the alternative is Jeb Bush or Joe Biden?
this thread isn't about election choices
it's about defining/using the term "conservative"
quote:
You act as if this is some digital label that applies 100% or 0%, and that's childish.
Trumpkins literally turn on pols who aren't 100% in line with his policy choices of that day. I mean just a few weeks ago Noem got ripped to shreds for not being ideologically pure enough.
The problem is that the "digital label" for Trumpism shifts and relies on lies like calling it "conservatism". You never know what set of ideas is required on anyday b/c it's not based on a clear set of ideals/policies.
the closest anyone really has come is the guy who used "globalism", which is a bigger crutch than "conservative"
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I get that, but Trump also didn't win re-election and I don't think any of his acolytes stand a chance given the post-election nonsense (that 100% is associated with Trumpism, especially if we completely ignore 1/6/21, which came after the GA embarrassment)
But, therein lies the academic (pointless?) nature of arguing toward some particular ideal, versus what is actual reality and understanding the reasonable alternatives available.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
A conservative is someone who wants to conserve the white Christian values that we had in the 1950's.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:08 pm to AUCom96
quote:
Who do you feel accurately fits the label?
I'm 38, so for most of my life, it's been guys like Trent Lott, Newt Gingrich, GWB, Boehner, etc.
More social regulation and less regulation over trade. In favor of wars but not taxes. Etc.
Those are RINOs now, though, even though that sect has dominated the GOP since what? The 70s? 60s?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:08 pm to 93and99
quote:
When did the police "encroach" into Trump's life?
his wires were tapped, bro
and i'm being 100% serious. the FBI and other intel agencies were shady as frick to get permission to spy on Trump and his people
This post was edited on 5/12/21 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:09 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the closest anyone really has come is the guy who used "globalism", which is a bigger crutch than "conservative"
Globalism is sucking the arse of foreign countries with American taxpayer money.
A real conservative doesn't like that. That money should be spent here.
Do you get it now?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:10 pm to Flats
quote:
It clearly matters to you just as much. Why?
Post modernists destroying language is fascinating (and scary) to me. Shows cult-like mentality in political factions, which gets scarier as it gets more intense. It's intense right now.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the label is valuable
This reminds me of a true experience 30 years ago. I lived in Shreveport and my doorbell rang. It was a black female Dem candidate for city council in my district.
She smiled and asked for my vote.
Me: 'Are you a conservative or a liberal?'
Her: 'Neither. I'm for good government.'
Me: 'Then, all of your opponents are for bad government?'
I'll never forget the look on her face as her brain went into a lock down. Her mouth was open but she could not speak.
Me: 'Well, you have a nice day. Goodbye.' And I closed the door.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:11 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
nature of arguing toward some particular ideal, versus what is actual reality and understanding the reasonable alternatives available.
It's not ideals as much as labels. Why is it SO important for Trump-fans to identify as "conservative"?
The thing is, most of these people aren't former Dems or libertatrians. They've always been/voted Republican and have scaled as "conservative" as that label has allowed.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:12 pm to 93and99
quote:
Globalism is sucking the arse of foreign countries with American taxpayer money.
"globalism" is a LOT more than just that
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:12 pm to Zach
quote:
Me: 'Are you a conservative or a liberal?'
Her: 'Neither. I'm for good government.'
Me: 'Then, all of your opponents are for bad government?'
sounds like a scene from Yes Minister
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Why is it SO important for Trump-fans to identify as "conservative"?
I don't understand. Are you attempting to assert that one can't logically be a "Trump-fan" and also "identify as conservative"?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
"globalism" is a LOT more than just that
Nope
Why do people like you get a boner when we prop up other countries with taxpayer money?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:15 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You never know what set of ideas is required on anyday b/c it's not based on a clear set of ideals/policies.
Is liberalism? Is any political label?
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