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re: Is it possible to keep a country if almost everything is subservient to the profit motive?
Posted on 4/30/26 at 9:10 pm to weagle1999
Posted on 4/30/26 at 9:10 pm to weagle1999
I think one of the largest drivers is the shrinking of the middle class. Both ends of the spectrum are becoming larger percentage of population.
Growing up we had doctors, city employees, retail workers, lawyers living on same street. Some had slightly larger homes, newer cars, etc but nothing too noticeable. Everyone socialized and seemed to be in the same boat trying to get by.
Today we have a wider spread between haves and have nots plus higher expectations for the minimum lifestyle standard. Creates a lot of division and focus on money.
Growing up we had doctors, city employees, retail workers, lawyers living on same street. Some had slightly larger homes, newer cars, etc but nothing too noticeable. Everyone socialized and seemed to be in the same boat trying to get by.
Today we have a wider spread between haves and have nots plus higher expectations for the minimum lifestyle standard. Creates a lot of division and focus on money.
1
Posted on 4/30/26 at 9:35 pm to Arktigers
quote:
Creates a lot of division and focus on money.
It existed before. But Gen X only had Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, televised once a week, to dwell on it. Now there is social media (frick you, Kardashians.)
quote:
Everyone socialized and seemed to be in the same boat trying to get by.
You seem to be romanticizing the 70s, where everyone queued for gas. Your perspective is distorted based on what you noticed, at that particular age.
quote:
higher expectations for the minimum lifestyle standard
Who did that? I remember having roommates and having to go to a laundromat, even in the 90s. Who created the expectation that soft kids need their own place?
Posted on 4/30/26 at 9:39 pm to weagle1999
quote:
can’t help but think that many of the problems in the US that most of us want solved originated with someone wanting to make more money.
Agreed. Publicly traded companies drive everything to maximize earnings and increase stock price. They operate in ways that the original company would not as when they were a private company.
Posted on 4/30/26 at 9:41 pm to weagle1999
quote:
Is it possible to keep a country if almost everything is subservient to the profit motive?
Adam Smith says this thread is retarded.
Posted on 4/30/26 at 9:50 pm to weagle1999
It's end-stage capitalism. In short runs (a couple to a few hundred years) I think capitalism is the best economic system in the world. It's not compatable with human nature over longer stretches of time though.
Doing the right things for the long term greater good when it's not the most profitable thing today is not human at a societal level.
Doing the right things for the long term greater good when it's not the most profitable thing today is not human at a societal level.
Posted on 4/30/26 at 9:59 pm to weagle1999
quote:
profit motive
quote:
Illegals, foreign owned businesses, welfare, take your pick.
Only one of those is anywhere close to being driven by a “profit” motive.
ETA: Now “grift”, on the other hand…
This post was edited on 4/30/26 at 10:02 pm
Posted on 4/30/26 at 9:59 pm to weagle1999
DP
This post was edited on 4/30/26 at 10:02 pm
Posted on 4/30/26 at 10:03 pm to The_Duke
Get in the small group.
Posted on 4/30/26 at 10:08 pm to Frank Belavis
quote:
Some very powerful people in this world just can't let go of that post-WW2 economic boom.
Implied growth obligation.
Posted on 4/30/26 at 10:44 pm to The_Duke
quote:
There’s never a point where the system recognizes “good enough,” because expansion is built into its foundation.
No. The reason "good enough" is never recognized is because it's two lies for the price of one. EVer notice how when someone says something is "good enough" that it is neither 1) good, nor is it 2) enough. "Good enough" has always been a way to describe something that is subpar and does not satisfactorily meet expectations. It's a way to sell mediocrity.
If you accept "good enough," then you have no right to complain about anything that does not meet your expectations.
Posted on 4/30/26 at 10:50 pm to weagle1999
Human existence has always been subservient to the profit motive.
It's called evolution. We evolved thanks to the profit motive. It's driven our evolution, provided for our species, integral to our existence. Advanced our technology ... since the beginning of time.
The countries that have abandoned the profit motive are no longer countries.
It's called evolution. We evolved thanks to the profit motive. It's driven our evolution, provided for our species, integral to our existence. Advanced our technology ... since the beginning of time.
The countries that have abandoned the profit motive are no longer countries.
Posted on 4/30/26 at 10:59 pm to AURulz1
quote:
Get in the small group.
What does the other 98% of the population do?
Posted on 4/30/26 at 11:00 pm to weagle1999
quote:
I also think that many of us are fooling ourselves about what America is really about now. Our culture revolves around money and consumption foremost (I think).
It’s scary AF that an American would think this, especially with the data we have regarding all other forms of government run systems.
There something seriously damaged in our educational system and values.
Posted on 4/30/26 at 11:19 pm to TigerFanatic99
quote:
It's not compatable with human nature over longer stretches of time though.
Anything else is not compatible with human nature over much shorter stretches of time.
The U.S.S.R.'s socialist economy didn't even make it 75 years. China is having to inject more and more elements of capitalism into their system to stretch it out and they are roughly almost where the Soviet Union was when their economy collapsed. Cuba is at 65 years currently and they are experiencing their worst economic crisis since 1959. They literally can't even keep the lights on.
A fascist economy isn't even designed to last long term.
Other than those choices you have what? Barter, gift, participatory, resource based, and feudalism, none of which could possibly work in a country of 340 million people.
So I'm not sure what choice anybody really has.
Posted on 4/30/26 at 11:37 pm to Ten Bears
quote:
It’s scary AF that an American would think this, especially with the data we have regarding all other forms of government run systems.
There something seriously damaged in our educational system and values.
This is what I keep telling everyone is going to end America.
This particular brand of "Us & Them" populism that ignores facts, principles, history, current examples, etc., etc. and only recognizes that which supports the idea that "They" are out to get you. Even if the evidence for that scenario is obviously false.
The same system that populists on both the right and the left claim is too broken to be fixed has produced the most comfortable standard of living for the most people with the fewest in (real) poverty and the smallest gap between classes in terms of quality of daily life and the least racism and sexism and general discrimination, the greatest opportunity for the largest number of people, the most redress for violation of civil rights, etc., etc., that has ever existed on planet Earth.
And it has done so even though the "Deep State" has always existed. In fact, we have more ways of holding the "Deep State" accountable now than ever before.
Meanwhile, alternative systems have collapsed over and over again and none of them have bee responsible for the advances that the western capitalist systems have been responsible for. There are dozens of historical examples at this point.
But socialism/Marxism is becoming more and more popular, because there is an easy "They" to point at, and under this brand of populism, that's all that matters to people.
It is going to end us. Because it's not reality. It separates us from reality, in fact.
Posted on 4/30/26 at 11:40 pm to weagle1999
quote:
Is it possible to keep a country if almost everything is subservient to the profit motive?
Probably not, but luckily we don't have anything close to that in the US at this point. That might have been a possible danger 135 years ago, but we have a lot of mechanisms that have been put in place since then to prevent that.
Posted on 5/1/26 at 12:22 am to weagle1999
quote:It's funny how you leave out the plain old legal capitalists in your list. What about the crazy attempt to addict boys and young men to gambling? What about all the money poured by private companies into hiring PhDs to make buttons on web pages just THAT much more addictive to press, rather than inventing new cures and the like.
Illegals, foreign owned businesses, welfare, take your pick.
Seriously, why did you only list everything except the obvious?
Posted on 5/1/26 at 12:24 am to scrooster
quote:I'm not sure this is true. Human existence went for millennia with almost none of the types of advances you are alluding to. Hell, they still are finding "untouched" tribes deep in the Amazon.
Human existence has always been subservient to the profit motive.
Posted on 5/1/26 at 6:51 am to The_Duke
The purest form of free market capitalism never included the idea of industries heavily influencing and controlling politicians and lawmakers to favor their own industries and businesses. True free market capitalism has not existed for close to 100 years.
Posted on 5/1/26 at 6:52 am to weagle1999
quote:
Our culture revolves around money and consumption foremost (I think).
What would you rather it revolve around?
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