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re: How important are Confederate monuments to you?
Posted on 7/22/18 at 10:10 am to Mr. Misanthrope
Posted on 7/22/18 at 10:10 am to Mr. Misanthrope
quote:
if the men who fought toe to toe against the CSA armies for the four bloodiest years in the Republic's history didn't readily brand them traitors and welcomed them back into the Union-why do you call them that?
this is the most significant fact concerning the post-CW attitude in America. It should be the starting point for any discussion of the aftermath.
And those statues being torn down memorialize the very men who nurtured that feeling. R.E.Lee himself earns the most credit for the attitude of the south after having lost the war to superior resources and manpower. There were all honorable men by any measure. They could have easily supported a guerrilla resistance that would have torn this country apart for generations if not centuries.
What these men did was appeal to the good sense of the American people and the wounds were healed in a most astonishingly short time that it is another miracle of the American spirit.
NOW - 175 years later, after an opposition party has driven the black people the war was fought to liberate into a dependent welfare state of dysfunction that they use this stunt to rile up emotional nonsense for the purposes of undermining a duly elected president.
Those statues represent more honorable men - and true patriots - than any DEMOCRAT national leader in today's world.
1
Posted on 7/22/18 at 10:23 am to uniq
quote:
They lost. I don't like losers. We don't have statues dedicated to British generals after beating them in the Revolutionary War
Dumbest argument ever. If you really believe that, why aren’t you protesting the removal of crazy horse or any other Indian monuments? They lost and you apparently don’t like losers.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 10:25 am to FT
Very
Posted on 7/22/18 at 10:28 am to AggieHank86
quote:
quote:
quote:
SOCV?
Yessir ... and proud of it.
========
On several bloodlines for me, and one of my ancestors’ statue is in danger here in Texas.
Same here, except none of mine earned any honors. One of my great grandfathers did not die until I was 10 years old, so I knew him personally = One of the last CW vets left alive at that time All of my great-grabdfathers and all but one of my g-great grandfathers fought in that war on the Confederate side. One of my gggrandfathers was well into his 50s and refused to enlist - he hid out in the woods along the Sabine River throughout the war.
I am not al all dishonored to have them as ancestors. That was a memorable era of American history = and the right thing was the outcome. DEMOCRATs are eager to not let it drop = even though "their" side won. They want the angst to continue forever. It is the only way they know to gin up emotional outbursts and engender nonsense protestations.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 10:43 am to Mr. Misanthrope
quote:
This board, either seriously, or tongue in cheek, raises the issue of particular areas of the country separating from the rest of the states. Many of the reasons given for doing so and the emotions expressed strangely mirror ante-bellum America. The people expressing these ideas probably don't think of themselves as traitors to this country, many of whom, most certainly, have served her selflessly and even shed their blood in doing so. Traitor is a strong term for you to throw around so blithely. BTW, if the men who fought toe to toe against the CSA armies for the four bloodiest years in the Republic's history didn't readily brand them traitors and welcomed them back into the Union-why do you call them that?
People on this board call NFL players who kneel before the flag traitors. What should we call Americans that would actually FIRE on the flag?
The flag represents the Union. You are either for the Union, or you are against it. If you are against it, you are against the flag.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 10:51 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
erase history
Since when did removing monuments equal "erasing history"? You can't erase history, history is what happened. You can't go back in time and change it.
But we've been taking down monuments from our earliest beginnings...
From King George coming down in 1776:
To Saddam Hussein coming down in 2003:
Does that mean that King George never ruled the American colonies, or that Hussein never ruled Iraq now? Has history been erased?
No.
It's just a bunch of drama queens getting their panties bunched up.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:00 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
People on this board call NFL players who kneel before the flag traitors.
nope - we call them ignorant, stupid, privileged, and delusional. They are extremely fortunate to live in a country that allows them to display their disruptive ignorance on such an unearned platform without serious consequence.
The good men who died to ensure those freedoms would be mortified at how carelessly and trivially these idiots are playing games with it.
quote:
You are either for the Union, or you are against it. If you are against it, you are against the flag.
utter nonsense.
Those men honored in these statues under discussion never tried to overthrow the USA. They wanted to form a different country, the CSA, and live peacefully with the USA.
At that time secession was thought to be a fundamental 'right' in the same vein as the Declaration of Independence. The war ended that argument by dint of force.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:06 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
But we've been taking down monuments from our earliest beginnings...
There is a huge difference between taking down existing monuments to evil regimes after you have won the war and taken control of their territory.
The Union would have been justified in removing any existing monument to any one of the Confederate leaders in the aftermath of the war. None existed.
The monuments being taken down were raised in memorial long after the wounds fo the war had healed, to represent the basic honor and integrity of the men who, by chance of birth, fought to defend their homeland.
But you know all that.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:10 am to FT
I do not think they should be destroyed. They are a part of out history. Should we have Confederate statues in the front of government buildings? No. But, they should be preserved. We must remember all our history. Including the bad. For if we do not learn from it, we are doomed to repeat it. With that being said, it’s a non-issue. Another feel good bullshite move the left pulled to make it look like productive change. It’s just another excuse they use to scream racism and act like animals. They can all get fricked on that issue.
This post was edited on 7/22/18 at 11:12 am
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:13 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:You can erase history from the minds of the illiterate masses by removing all visible evidence of it.quote:Since when did removing monuments equal "erasing history"? You can't erase history, history is what happened. You can't go back in time and change it.
erase history
How many of them are going to read a book?
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:15 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Those men honored in these statues...
...fired on Old Glory.
Anyone firing on our flag deserves the full might and fury of the UNITED STATES combined forces. If you don't believe that, GTFO.
P.G.T. Beauregard, from Louisiana, ordered the first shot of the war against the United States. I do not care to honor him with a statue, but I will never forget what he did. Bringing down his statue doesn't erase history, it only stops celebrating someone who fired on OUR flag.
quote:
utter nonsense.
No, "utter nonsense" is believing that history can actually be "erased".
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:18 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
taking down existing monuments to evil regimes
Have you ever actually read the CSA Constitution? THAT was an evil regime. States' rights? States in the CSA didn't even have the right to determine for themselves whether or not they would have slavery.
quote:
The Union would have been justified in removing any existing monument to any one of the Confederate leaders in the aftermath of the war.
Well, that's what's happening now.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:25 am to FT
It's pretty important to me. One of my cousins was a Confederate general and has an equestrian statue in front of the State Capitol Building in Georgia. I will go ballistic if that statue is removed.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:28 am to FT
They represent a unique and remarkable coming together after our Civil War.
Look at other Civil Wars, Russia, Spain, China, the results were slaughter by the victors, we had reconciliation and respect.
F the a-holes that are offended by a most remarkable achievement almost 200years later.
Look at other Civil Wars, Russia, Spain, China, the results were slaughter by the victors, we had reconciliation and respect.
F the a-holes that are offended by a most remarkable achievement almost 200years later.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:35 am to AggieHank86
quote:
You can erase history
No, you can't.
People can choose to ignore history, like all the history leading up to the Civil War showing that the conflict was actually over slavery. But just because people don't want to remember the Kansas-Nebraska Act, or the Missouri Compromise, doesn't mean they didn't happen.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:36 am to FT
quote:
I know they’re not a top ten issue for the vast majority of people, but how high up would you put them?
Well the good news about tearing down all those confederate monuments is that it makes room for the ones we will put up after the swamp is drained. We will have the best monuments ever, won’t we!
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:37 am to FT
We should totally let liberals destroy everything that we don't find important.
Then once they finally try to destroy something that we do find important..... I'm sure liberals will back down.
Then once they finally try to destroy something that we do find important..... I'm sure liberals will back down.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:39 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
The monuments themselves not so much. The desire of some to erase history because it's uncomfortable, very much so.
This is all that needs to be said. I don't give a flip about the Confederacy. I do very much care about stopping the Left wing crusade to censor and destroy anything they don't like.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:41 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:quote:
People on this board call NFL players who kneel before the flag traitors.
nope - we call them ignorant, stupid, privileged, and delusional.
bullshite. There are plenty of examples of just that.
Posted on 7/22/18 at 11:42 am to PEPE
quote:
I don't give a flip about the Confederacy. I do very much care about stopping the Left wing crusade to censor and destroy anything they don't like.
Removing statues =/= erasing history
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