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Started By
Message
re: 74% of Democrats, Majority of Americans Support Single-Payer Health Care System
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:04 am to jptiger2009
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:04 am to jptiger2009
quote:
I understand why healthcare corporations exist in a free market country, but I truly don't understand how or why ANY American can say that healthcare in America is "fine".
Because it is or, at least, more to the point, it was and could easily be again.
The problem we have is the definition of fine.
Most people define "fine" healthcare with an economic impossibility. IE, they define it as "every living soul has the same access to any and all health care".
There is literally no economic model that allows that. You're more likely to have Obama come into your living room riding a unicorn while pigs fly through your windows.
But, that's what people want.
1
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:05 am to Bench McElroy
There is no way you’d garner that kind of support for a single payer system without lying to people’s faces about how that system would be implemented.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:07 am to Geauxst Writer
quote:
We need single payer healthcare for all. I am not a left winger, just an average citizen bludgened by our failed healthcare system.
I’m sorry to hear about your troubles, but can you explain how a single payer would reduce the $175,000 cost of your medical treatments?
And if you think the cost would be less (it wouldn’t), who would you take money away from?
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:16 am to ShortyRob
quote:
There is literally no economic model that allows that.
not in America.
Let's look at the privatization of public schools. Charter Schools have taken over in completely failed systems (like Orleans Parish). The numbers look great, but they're teaching to standardized tests to improve the school grades. My point is that we're even allowing capitalist to infiltrate or schools with the idea that they are and will improve them. Meanwhile, they're only doing "facelifts". And, how long will it be a profitable business?
I say all that to prove that our for-profit healthcare system is the problem. I'm not really sure if there's any law or laws that can kill Fortune 500 businesses for following the law.
It's like everyone is fighting a losing battle.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:18 am to jptiger2009
quote:Not anywhere. It's a fantasy.
not in America.
quote:
My point is that we're even allowing capitalist to infiltrate
Um. If the socialists failed at education........and you are saying the capitalists are failing.......maybe........just maybe.........there's a factor not being considered.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:25 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Support would plummet once people found out the details of the plan.
As usual, you're wrong.
quote:
Wait till you tell them a government plan might not offer same level of coverage.
Wait till you correctly tell them that it'll offer the same or better coverage at a cheaper price.
quote:
You think they'd support it then?
Not everyone is as backward in economic incentives as you...so yes.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:25 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
Are you just assuming every brand or company that makes hypodermic needles or MRI machines would suddenly become part of the government?
No. Just that suddenly the government sets the price and the demand for every hypodermic needle and MRI machine.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:26 am to Bench McElroy
And Hilary has a 98% chance of being elected
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:26 am to ShortyRob
quote:
there's a factor not being considered
absolutely, there are a lot of factors.
You'd also argue that education is not a right. Correct?
In other words, in America, a poor child with no direction (or money) stays poor for the rest of his life. Oh no, you'd point at the 5% (NOT A TRUE PERCENTAGE) that make it out as success stories to refute what I'm comparing.
We can all agree that everyone deserves a fair shake in America, right? Our differences really lie in that fact that you think that everyone already gets a fair shake, and I think that you are blindly privileged.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:27 am to BamaAtl
quote:
Wait till you correctly tell them that it'll offer the same or better coverage at a cheaper price.
Does it come with rotating hotties that will blow me whenever I want too!!! 
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:29 am to jptiger2009
quote:Nope
You'd also argue that education is not a right. Correct?
I support education 100%, but nope.
quote:What are you babbling about?
In other words, in America, a poor child with no direction (or money) stays poor for the rest of his life. Oh no, you'd point at the 5% (NOT A TRUE PERCENTAGE) that make it out as success stories to refute what I'm comparing.
quote:I despise the word fair because people's definition of it has gone to shite. So, I'll need to know what you define as "fair".
We can all agree that everyone deserves a fair shake in America, right?
quote:
Our differences really lie in that fact that you think that everyone already gets a fair shake, and I think that you are blindly privileged.
Define "fair shake". Cause no. Life isn't fair and I'm under no delusion that it is.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:30 am to ShortyRob
Our medical system seems to have major structural issues. It hasn't been close to a free market in a long time.
Try being self employed with kids that contract Type I diabetes and finding insurance coverage that costs less than $20k per year in premiums. There is such a huge gulf between employer provided health insurance and self employed insurance coverage (and not speaking to what employers cover vs what employees pay).
I could see wide support for a Medicare-lite option available to the general public. It would also mean our country would need more doctors and/or nurse practitioners.
Try being self employed with kids that contract Type I diabetes and finding insurance coverage that costs less than $20k per year in premiums. There is such a huge gulf between employer provided health insurance and self employed insurance coverage (and not speaking to what employers cover vs what employees pay).
I could see wide support for a Medicare-lite option available to the general public. It would also mean our country would need more doctors and/or nurse practitioners.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:32 am to Geauxst Writer
quote:
I have brand name private healthcare and am a small business owner, and no one in my family has ever spent a night in the hospital until last year in which my family had two major health events. My insurance company failed to cover the vast majority of our medical expenses, hospitals overcharged wildly, and I was forced to pay over $175,000 of our of pocket medical expenses.
Sounds like you just had a terrible plan. I had a family member spend over 2 months in the hospital and paid nothing out of pocket. Another spent a couple weeks there with a couple surgeries. Only spent a few thousand. Both had private insurance plans.
Also, why is it do you think hospitals overcharge wildly? Single-payer will only overcharge you in taxes. You will still be overpaying for a service to cover the welfare class while suffering a drop in the quality of healthcare.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:32 am to jptiger2009
quote:
say all that to prove that our for-profit healthcare system is the problem
It’s not.
The real problem is a sedentary populace with a mistaken belief that a trip to the doctor and a pill can take care of all their medical issues.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:32 am to CivilTiger83
quote:Agreed
Our medical system seems to have major structural issues.
quote:Well no duh
It hasn't been close to a free market in a long time.
quote:I don't know what your point is here exactly.
Try being self employed with kids that contract Type I diabetes and finding insurance coverage that costs less than $20k per year in premiums
quote:Yes. I'm aware of how this works.
There is such a huge gulf between employer provided health insurance and self employed insurance coverage (and not speaking to what employers cover vs what employees pay).
quote:
I could see wide support for a Medicare-lite option available to the general public. It would also mean our country would need more doctors and/or nurse practitioners.
I could see wide support for basically ANYTHING you can propose on ANY subject that makes other people pay for my shite.
Free shite is popular. Water is wet.
quote:
It would also mean our country would need more doctors and/or nurse practitioners.
Um............SMDH
This post was edited on 4/13/18 at 7:33 am
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:32 am to Bench McElroy
This is bullshite, but if there is even a small increase in the number of people accepting of single payer, then the abject failure that is Obamacare served it's intended purpose.
Obama and the socialist democrats told people it would save them money, lie. Obama and the socialist democrats told people they could keep their plan, lie. Obama and the socialist democrats told people they could keep their doctor, lie.
Oh, the government totally screwed up your health insurance? Well that's because they weren't in total control of it! We need to go single payer!
Obama and the socialist democrats told people it would save them money, lie. Obama and the socialist democrats told people they could keep their plan, lie. Obama and the socialist democrats told people they could keep their doctor, lie.
Oh, the government totally screwed up your health insurance? Well that's because they weren't in total control of it! We need to go single payer!
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:34 am to jptiger2009
quote:
In other words, in America, a poor child with no direction (or money) stays poor for the rest of his life. Oh no, you'd point at the 5% (NOT A TRUE PERCENTAGE) that make it out as success stories to refute what I'm comparing.
Steps to not being poor:
Finish high school.
Get a job.
Don’t get put in jail.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:36 am to Bench McElroy
The dems really do just have the worst ideas
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:37 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
It would require the largest increase in taxes in the history of the country. Good luck selling that.
Well, a very high percentage of this country already doesn't pay taxes of any kind. And then a good part of the percentage left over is incredibly stupid and thinks the government knows best how to use their own money.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 7:37 am to ShortyRob
I say this every time.
People want an economic fantasy.
There is literally no product in all of human history that can meet the following model.
1. All versions, even the best and newest available.......are available to everyone.
2. Everyone is able to afford it.
3. The producers of the product still earn enough to keep people doing it at a rate where #1 is still true.
4. You don't bankrupt the whole system.
One of those 4 MUST give. Capitalist approach. Socialist approach. Elementary school approach. ONE of them MUST give.
But liberals are selling that all 4 not only can be done, but ARE being done elsewhere. Which is just a bald faced lie.
People want an economic fantasy.
There is literally no product in all of human history that can meet the following model.
1. All versions, even the best and newest available.......are available to everyone.
2. Everyone is able to afford it.
3. The producers of the product still earn enough to keep people doing it at a rate where #1 is still true.
4. You don't bankrupt the whole system.
One of those 4 MUST give. Capitalist approach. Socialist approach. Elementary school approach. ONE of them MUST give.
But liberals are selling that all 4 not only can be done, but ARE being done elsewhere. Which is just a bald faced lie.
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