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Wisconsin Hospital Replaces All Anesthesiologists with CRNAs
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:05 am
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:05 am
quote:
Watertown (Wis.) Regional Medical Center has replaced its anesthesiologists with certified registered nurse anesthetists, and some physicians aren't happy about the change, according to Medscape Medical News.
In an undated letter shared March 28 on Twitter, the community hospital's CEO, Richard Keddington, said WRMC is moving to a CRNA model in its anesthesia department.
"This is a very common model in hospitals our size … and the literature is clear that care quality and outcomes are just as good with CRNAs," the letter said.
LINK
Mid-level providers (NPs and PAs) are undoubtedly a critical part of the healthcare system, yet it seems there is an ever increasing "creep" of mid-level autonomy that is slowly supplanting the roles of physicians.
Would anyone honestly feel comfortable undergoing surgery knowing that the person responsible for keeping them alive during the operation is not a MD/DO?
And who becomes liable when the CRNA inevitably makes an error? The surgeon? What surgeon in their right mind would fully accept liability for CRNA errors during a surgical procedure?
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Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:06 am to Cs
quote:
Would anyone honestly feel comfortable undergoing surgery knowing that the person responsible for keeping them alive during the operation is not a MD/DO?
Uh, yea.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:08 am to Cs
Which one has the ridiculously high suicide and drug addiction rate? Anesthesiologists or CRNAs?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:09 am to Cs
quote:
And who becomes liable when the CRNA inevitably makes an error? The surgeon? What surgeon in their right mind would fully accept liability for CRNA errors during a surgical procedure?
It will certainly be interesting when such a case arises to see who takes that fall.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:11 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
Which one has the ridiculously high suicide and drug addiction rate? Anesthesiologists or CRNAs?
Which one?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:11 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
Which one has the ridiculously high suicide and drug addiction rate? Anesthesiologists or CRNAs?
Both.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:11 am to Breauxsif
Which one of those two groups is what I'm asking. Are you saying it's both?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:11 am to ProjectP2294
It's gotten to the point where I only see a PA at any of my doctor visits. Unless I have any issues at which time the Dr will poke his head in and spend a total of 2 minutes to glance at the chart & then he'll scratch down something OR tell the PA to write a script and send me on my way.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:11 am to Cs
I think this is pretty common practice at most hospitals. Lots of CRNA’s work under supervision of MD. There’s generally an MD that reviews the cases also.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:13 am to Cs
quote:
Would anyone honestly feel comfortable undergoing surgery knowing that the person responsible for keeping them alive during the operation is not a MD/DO?
It's not "surgery", but anyone who has been put under for an endoscopy or colonoscopy almost certainly was done under the care of a CRNA and not an MD. And you would probably be surprised how many surgeries happen in hospital OR's with the CRNA in charge and no Anesthesiologist to be found
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:14 am to Cs
I don't fall for the Labor Theory of Value. Don't care how much one person put into their education versus another person if they are both capable of doing the same job.
Lots of nurse practitioners can do the same job as a family physician. I don't know if they can do the same job as an anesthesiologist, but if they can for a cheaper price, why not?
Lots of nurse practitioners can do the same job as a family physician. I don't know if they can do the same job as an anesthesiologist, but if they can for a cheaper price, why not?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:14 am to Cs
quote:
Would anyone honestly feel comfortable undergoing surgery knowing that the person responsible for keeping them alive during the operation is not a MD/DO?
I’m a medic which means nothing, but I say that to add, years ago I did a couple hundred hours in an OR. And yes, I would absolutely prefer a CRNA being in control of my airway and drug administration than an anesthesiologist
ETA: After reading this thread with some seemingly knowledgeable people responding I may very well be wrong. I trust both, but my above reply seems misguided.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:15 am to tigereye58
quote:
Lots of CRNA’s work under supervision of MD. There’s generally an MD that reviews the cases also.
They all work under an MD. Specifically, the work under an anesthesiologist. The big question here is who carries the liability when an anesthesiologist is not part of the surgical equation?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:15 am to Cs
you wanted affordable healthcare you got it
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:16 am to Cs
Don’t kid yourself. A CRNA can clinically do everything an anesthesiologist can do. They both serve a vital role in keeping you comfortable and alive and waking you up at the end of a procedure. The only difference is that one went to medical school and one went to nursing school, practiced in an ICU for a few years, and then went back to CRNA school. The public has tried to turn these two groups against each other, but being in a healthcare setting, I can promise you they both have great respect for each other and welcome each other’s help when things get out of whack in the OR.
In regards to this Wisconsin Hospital’s decision, a CRNA’s salary is generally $170,000-200,000 versus $300,000-450,000 for an anesthesiologist. May have something to do with the decision.
In regards to this Wisconsin Hospital’s decision, a CRNA’s salary is generally $170,000-200,000 versus $300,000-450,000 for an anesthesiologist. May have something to do with the decision.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:16 am to Cs
quote:
Would anyone honestly feel comfortable undergoing surgery knowing that the person responsible for keeping them alive during the operation is not a MD/DO?
Yes. In fact I’d rather an experienced CRNA than a newer doctor.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 11:18 am
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:16 am to Cs
quote:
Watertown (Wis.) Regional Medical Center has replaced its anesthesiologists with certified registered nurse anesthetists, and some physicians aren't happy about the change, according to Medscape Medical News
Don't worry.. They'll hire anesthesiologists back when they can pay you whatever a CRNA makes.
Don't worry. The money is going to a good cause. Biden's America.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:16 am to Rouge
quote:
Specifically, the work under an anesthesiologist. The big question here is who carries the liability when an anesthesiologist is not part of the surgical equation?
I’d assume they’d still work under the license of a doctor like paramedics do, even though that doctor may not be there.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:17 am to TigerDeacon
quote:
Both.
I've always wondered if it's the job itself or the type of people drawn to that job.
But it's weird.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:17 am to Cs
When my dad had injections for back pain a few years ago, they had a full fledged anesthetist administering the local anesthetic. He wasn't even asleep, just a mild sedative.
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