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re: Wisconsin Hospital Replaces All Anesthesiologists with CRNAs
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:36 am to Cs
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:36 am to Cs
quote:
Mid-level providers (NPs and PAs) are undoubtedly a critical part of the healthcare system
Agreed, but they require the sign off of a supervising doctor. What doctor is signing off for them? That is who is assuming the legal risk.
3
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:37 am to cwil177
Tell that to Joan Rivers and Michael Jackson!!!
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:37 am to Cs
All I want to know is will this lead to more shitty tik tok dance videos
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:38 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
[img]Agreed, but they require the sign off of a supervising doctor. What doctor is signing off for them? That is who is assuming the legal risk. [/img]
Wrong
Wrong
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:38 am to Cs
quote:
Would anyone honestly feel comfortable undergoing surgery knowing that the person responsible for keeping them alive during the operation is not a MD/DO?
What you do not know is this happens the majority of the time as there is a major shortage of anesthesiologists.
This is the sole reasons why CRNAs exist.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:38 am to cwil177
quote:
If you’re interested in learning more about this, check out Patients At Risk the book and also their Podcast on the same topic.
This is very interesting, I never knew about this angle. Thank you for sharing
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:40 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
We complain about credential inflation in other areas of our lives, but why not medicine? If a fully capable PA can operate an emergency room for a cheaper price, why not employ them over an MD who is going to demand a higher salary?
Good questions. The MDs see more patients per hour on average than the non physician practitioners, and the quality of care is higher. That 5% figure doesn’t get fixed “on the job” and you don’t know how experienced or well supervised that PA is when you go into the ER. That’s a lot of pathology, physiology, pharmacology, etc, that just isn’t taught in NP/PA curriculums. And this fact may be lost on you and others but those extra years of medical school and residency are not for nothing. If you prefer to see a PA only, by all means that’s your right. If my family member is having a life threatening emergency, I absolutely want the individual with the highest level of training possible to be directly managing their care.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:41 am to L S Usetheforce
quote:
but they require the sign off of a supervising doctor.
This is important. We have midlevels in the ER and for minor things they are fine but for people sick as shite they have problems
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:43 am to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Holy shite this is kind of terrifying they let these people (NPs) treat you as if theyre an MD
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:43 am to Cs
This is a bad idea. Anesthesia is a more risky procedure than most people think. I would not have a surgery at this hospital.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:44 am to Cs
quote:
Would anyone honestly feel comfortable undergoing surgery knowing that the person responsible for keeping them alive during the operation is not a MD/DO?
quote:
NPs and PAs
Having seen first hand the amount of schooling involved, and abilities of those, without question...
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:45 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
But I do think NPs should have greater autonomy in the family medicine realm
I don't.
Too often, their first instinct is to prescribe pills to alleviate symptoms and not problems. They don't have near the amount of hands on training that MD's do to provide proper medical care, especially to rural areas. I go to the doctor to see doctors, not nurses with Master's degrees.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:45 am to hubertcumberdale
quote:
Holy shite this is kind of terrifying they let these people (NPs) treat you as if theyre an MD
Those are completely different things/skill sets. WTF are you talking about.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:47 am to Lithium
quote:
This is important. We have midlevels in the ER and for minor things they are fine but for people sick as shite they have problems
IMO there is a stark contrast in management of critical patients from a Family practice NP in the ED and an Acute Care Boarded NP in ICU.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 11:49 am
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:47 am to ProjectP2294
quote:Had one I served with in the Navy, attempt suicide. Spent a few weeks in a psych unit, and then discharged. His body was found a few days later in the woods behind the hospital.
Which one has the ridiculously high suicide and drug addiction rate? Anesthesiologists or CRNAs?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:47 am to cwil177
quote:
Good questions. The MDs see more patients per hour on average than the non physician practitioners, and the quality of care is higher. That 5% figure doesn’t get fixed “on the job” and you don’t know how experienced or well supervised that PA is when you go into the ER. That’s a lot of pathology, physiology, pharmacology, etc, that just isn’t taught in NP/PA curriculums. And this fact may be lost on you and others but those extra years of medical school and residency are not for nothing. If you prefer to see a PA only, by all means that’s your right. If my family member is having a life threatening emergency, I absolutely want the individual with the highest level of training possible to be directly managing their care.
Fair enough. But in every aspect of these discussions, I am always more interested in what do these people know practically speaking* versus what they were taught in school. If the MD has a substantially greater skillset, I will see the MD. If the skillset is not that substantially different, and the NP/PA is cheaper, I would weigh my options and *probably* consider the mid-level provider.
Edit: *I have spoken with a few family physicians who willingly admit in private that they struggle to remember some of the stuff they were taught in medical school and need frequent refreshers before addressing certain issues. Most of them time, they are experts in long-term care of chronic issues (diabetes, hypertension), but not much else.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 11:50 am
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:47 am to LSUfanNkaty
Doesn't matter to me. I ain't no millennial, I'm a Boomer. I don't require no anesthesia.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:47 am to cwil177
PAs/NPs absolutely have their place but work in a setting where you deal with ER (not fast track but the real sick ER patients), trauma, anything emergent and the difference becomes very obvious very fast and most PAs and NPs I know will readily admit that.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 11:49 am
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:48 am to Landmass
quote:
This is a bad idea. Anesthesia is a more risky procedure than most people think. I would not have a surgery at this hospital.
If you've ever had surgery, let alone multiple surgeries in the past, the probability of a CRNA managed your care is extremely highly.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 11:48 am to LSUfanNkaty
quote:
Those are completely different things/skill sets. WTF are you talking about.
The level of schooling, training, and certification required to become an NP is still significantly less compared to a physician.
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