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Why is Earth’s surface warmer than its radiation-to-space temperature? (science board)

Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:30 pm
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36168 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:30 pm
We can work this out with measured sunlight, geometry and the laws of thermal radiation.

1. Start with conservation of energy (the first law of thermodynamics):

dE/dt = power absorbed - power emitted.

At equilibrium, the two powers balance. Earth intercepts sunlight over a disk of area pi*R^2, but its total surface area is 4*pi*R^2. With solar irradiance S approximately 1361 W/m^2 and planetary reflectivity A approximately 0.30:

P_absorbed = S*(1 - A)*pi*R^2
F_absorbed = P_absorbed/(4*pi*R^2)
F_absorbed = S*(1 - A)/4 approximately 238 W/m^2. [1]

The factor 4 comes from geometry, not an assumption that every place receives equal sunlight.

2. What temperature corresponds to that outgoing radiation?

The Stefan-Boltzmann law, obtained by integrating Planck's radiation law, gives blackbody emission:

F_emitted = sigma*T^4
sigma approximately 5.67 * 10^-8 W m^-2 K^-4

Temperature must be in kelvin. Therefore:

T_e = (S*(1 - A)/(4*sigma))^(1/4)
T_e approximately 255 K approximately -18 degrees C. [2]

This is the effective emission temperature: the blackbody temperature corresponding to Earth's radiation to space. The conventional rounded surface reference is about 288 K (15 degrees C), roughly 33 K warmer. A uniform blackbody surface at 288 K would emit sigma*(288 K)^4 approximately 390 W/m^2, considerably more than the 238 W/m^2 solar input. The surface therefore cannot be treated as directly radiating all its infrared energy to space. [3]

For a nonuniform surface with unit thermal-infrared emissivity radiating directly to space at equilibrium, with the same absorbed sunlight, sigma*mean(T^4) = 238 W/m^2. Because mean(T)^4 is less than or equal to mean(T^4) (Jensen's inequality), temperature variation cannot raise its mean above 255 K. This comparison holds today's reflectivity fixed; it is not an exact forecast for an Earth with its atmosphere removed, because clouds and reflectivity would also change. Solar reflectivity and infrared emissivity concern different wavelengths.

3. What changes the surface's energy budget?

Water vapour, CO2, other greenhouse gases and clouds absorb and emit thermal infrared radiation. Kirchhoff's law gives emissivity(lambda) = absorptivity(lambda) in local thermodynamic equilibrium: an absorber at a wavelength also emits at that wavelength. Its emission depends on its temperature through Planck's law. [2]

Some surface infrared escapes through atmospheric windows. Much of the infrared reaching space instead comes from colder atmospheric levels. The surface receives downward infrared as well as sunlight. In the steady-state approximation:

absorbed sunlight + downward infrared
= upward infrared + evaporation + sensible heat

The surface warming produced by the atmosphere's absorption and emission of infrared is, by definition, the atmospheric greenhouse effect. Energy still escapes to space; the atmosphere changes the temperatures needed to achieve balance. [1,3]

This obeys the second law. Radiation travels both ways, while net heat transfer remains from warmer to colder regions. For two ideal facing blackbodies:

F_net = sigma*(T_hot^4 - T_cold^4) > 0.

4. How do we identify the mechanism independently?

The temperature comparison alone does not identify the mechanism or a particular gas. Infrared spectroscopy does: satellite spectra show greenhouse-gas absorption signatures. AIRS observations have isolated the changing CO2 signal in its band near 15 micrometres and found agreement with radiative-transfer physics. [4]

Earth's internal heat is much too small to explain the comparison: an estimated 47 TW spread over Earth is about 0.09 W/m^2, versus roughly 238 W/m^2 of absorbed sunlight. [5]

The 33 K comparison concerns the natural greenhouse effect as a whole, not CO2 alone or a calculation of future warming from doubling CO2. The equilibrium calculation is a reference; Earth currently also stores energy when incoming power exceeds outgoing power.

Sources:
[1] NASA, Earth's energy budget:
https://science.nasa.gov/earth/earth-observatory/climate-and-earths-energy-budget/
[2] MIT atmospheric-radiation notes (Planck, Stefan-Boltzmann and Kirchhoff laws):
https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/12-815-atmospheric-radiation-fall-2006/resources/thermo/
[3] NASA GISS, measuring the greenhouse effect and the fixed-albedo comparison:
https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/2010_schmidt_05/
[4] Teixeira et al. (2024), direct spectral observations from space:
https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/24/6375/2024/
[5] Davies & Davies (2010), Earth's internal heat flux:
https://se.copernicus.org/articles/1/5/2010/
This post was edited on 10/25/26 at 10:44 pm
Posted by baybeefeetz
Member since Sep 2009
33139 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:33 pm to
Man stfu
Posted by Gifman
Captiva, FL
Member since Jan 2021
20180 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:33 pm to
quote:

SpidermanTUba


Holy shite I thought you were dead
Posted by cattus
Member since Jan 2009
16422 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:35 pm to
Thanks, this is been breaking my brain all weekend.
Posted by Tyga Woods
South Central Jupiter Island, FL
Member since Sep 2016
43470 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:36 pm to
Gfy
Posted by lepdagod
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2015
6484 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:36 pm to
So what’s your guess?
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
72292 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:38 pm to
Posted by Gusoline
Jacksonville, NC
Member since Dec 2013
11294 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:38 pm to
Asphalt and concrete buildings
Posted by cbr900racer22
City of Central, LA.
Member since Sep 2009
1428 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:39 pm to
Nerd
Posted by SingleMalt1973
Member since Feb 2022
26246 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:41 pm to
Probably has to do,with the gravitational force of Sydney Sweeny’s arse










Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
62219 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:42 pm to
Man, thanks for all of this great information. It has made my Sunday evening much better.
Posted by The Torch
DFW The Dub
Member since Aug 2014
31263 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:44 pm to
You should watch football more
Posted by highcotton2
Alabama
Member since Feb 2010
10767 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:45 pm to
I showed your post to my 11 year old son who is really into science and stuff. He said that he would make one wording change: instead of saying the atmosphere's greenhouse effect is established by the 33°C difference, say that the difference motivates the investigation, while atmospheric spectroscopy, radiation measurements and energy-budget observations establish the mechanism.

Take it for what it’s worth I can’t comment one way or the other.
Posted by Cosmo
glassman's guest house
Member since Oct 2003
133661 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 4:45 pm to
Chill out, have a drink, watch football

If you are worrying about global warming then you are doing life wrong
Posted by Napoleon
Kenna
Member since Dec 2007
75569 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 5:00 pm to
Why aren't you in the Poli board anymore?
It's gotten wilder.
Posted by NorthEndZone
Member since Dec 2008
14858 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 5:00 pm to
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
53893 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 5:03 pm to
So now we are copy and pasting AI discussions/answers to questions no one here is asking.
This post was edited on 10/25/26 at 5:07 pm
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
53893 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 5:04 pm to
quote:

Why aren't you in the Poli board anymore?
It's gotten wilder.


Assuming it’s by choice and not already done, he would get banned in short order.
Posted by LSUtoBOOT
Member since Aug 2012
21894 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 5:04 pm to
quote:

Why is Earth’s surface warmer than its radiation-to-space temperature?

Heat from farts that have yet to be released.
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
54438 posts
Posted on 10/25/26 at 5:08 pm to
DV #25
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